45 replies to this topic

[Rabain]

Look you are getting out of control with your comments. A Total Conversion is a well known idea in the BG modding community. Vlasak is working on a Total Conversion which is why he is working on an NLC system.

Vlasak was outlining his NLC system as he was planning on implementing it in his TC.

What part of this do you not understand? Did you read the complete thread on Vlasaks idea posted above?

NLC according to Vlasak's idea would mean changing the weapons you want to use NLC and then adding specific scripting to characters who would be attacked by NLC weapons. This is easily done for a TC as everything in the TC is being made by the creators. They can create all creatures with the correct scripts and still they would have to decide what that creature does after it wakes up from being unconcious.

Yes you could add Vlasak's idea straight into BG2 but you would only get benefits if you specifically designed a quest around NLC. Otherwise you would have to rewrite every quest/creature script in BG2 to account for an attack using NLC!

Vlasák is not suggesting anything close to "rewriting the entire game" An idea like Vlasák could work on a finished product like BG2, if pessimists like your being don't actively try to discourage it.

Rewriting the entire game is exactly what he was talking about, that is what a TC is: a Total Conversion of the game. Again read the link above to Vlasaks post and then actually read the post, the very first line of it says: "I've added this feature to our TC BG2 add-on CZ." Vlasak then goes on to point out: "I'm not going to apply this possibilities into BG1 or BG2 - it will be very complex and especially very time consuming to turn all the BG1/2 original content for Non-Lethal attack option. In case of whole new mods, their creators count with this possibility from the beginning and everything is simplier." Only the content of the mod would work using NLC.

Suffice to say NLC doesn't exist at all as it is, and is a deserving and useful story telling tool to try to create.

No it doesn't and yes it would, good luck with that.

[TruePurple]

Look you are getting out of control with your comments.

By saying your being pessimistic? whats wrong with that?

(Vlasák is) attempt(ing) to rewrite the entire game.

Granted I don't understand the scripting language he uses in parts. But it seems clear to me hes planing on using existing game programming to accomplish this. Not rewrite any of the code, and certainly not rewriting ALL of the code.

If by rewriting you mean storyline/quest stuff, hes not attempting to do that either from what I read. Just providing a tool for those who might add or change game content. Also I don't read anything in there that suggests that it would do nothing if it wasn't specifically written into quests. Though I do realize that it wouldn't do much good unless specifically written into quests, which is different from doing "nothing".

As far as whether its a "total conversion" or not, I have no idea. But if I were to go by your definition of TC, I'd say it wasn't one.

Edited by TruePurple, 11 July 2005 - 11:50 AM.

[Rabain]

Not rewrite any of the code, and certainly not rewriting ALL of the code.

We need to separate code as in the programming code of the game engine and code as in the code you would use in weidu to modify existing game files. Very few people have attempted to rewrite parts of the engine, though more is being learned each day (GemRB). Code such as Vlasak's can be used by weidu to alter game files to circumvent, to some extent, the limititaions of the engine.

Vlasak is not redesigning the game engine and releasing it as a new game that can do new and improved things that the old game engine couldn't. What he is doing is basically erasing all quests/creatures/area's and adding his own (or the team doing the TC is ) and altering creatures/scripts in a way that allows them to behave differently, such as responding to NLC.

He is not providing a tool for anything. A tool would be something like weidu or DLTCEP that does something which allows others to change the game more easily.

Take a look at http://www.dragonlancetc.com/ for an idea of a TC that has actually started. This is where the DLTCEP Tool started too.

As far as whether its a "total conversion" or not, I have no idea. But if I were to go by your definition of TC, I'd say it wasn't one.

This is actually getting funny. Vlasak says it is a TC, not me.

You probably aren't going to take this from me but it is generally agreed that a TC is where you remove everything from the game and add your own story, area's, items, characters etc. You are no longer playing the BG:SoA/ToB story but someone else's. As opposed to a mod which adds content to the existing game but the basic storyline remains the same. Take a look at WTP and Reign of the Masque for TC ideas currently in development. In these TC's there will be no Amn, no Athkatla, no Jon Irenicus..no Faerun...they are set on different worlds but all will work within the limitations of the engine that runs BG2.

A Partial Conversion is generally agreed to be where you change certain aspects of the game which would, in a fairly large way, alter the way the game is played (though not necessarily the storyline). Take a look at Galactygons Lost Crossroads or Echon's FotD though some would not consider FotD a Partial Conversion (I would as it changes rules to some extent).

If anything I have stated here is incorrect I am sure there will be a wealth of replies to correct me!

[TruePurple]

You probably aren't going to take this from me

At no point have I questioned your definition of TC. I have not but to go by what you tell me it means.

what he is doing is basically erasing all quests/creatures/area's and adding his own

I see mention of modifying certain items (adding "new extension headers" to items he wants to be enabled for nonlethal combat) to accommodate the mod. Which is why making it just a few items that have this would be easier.

I see no mention of erasing any items and adding his own. I see no mention of erasing or even modifying (by this mod) any quests, creatures, or areas.

Edited by TruePurple, 12 July 2005 - 08:24 AM.

[Rabain]

I see no mention of erasing any items and adding his own. I see no mention of erasing or even modifying (by this mod) any quests, creatures, or areas.

This is my last post in this topic, there is not much point and it has gotten away from the original purpose.

If you follow the link in the first line of the NLC thread that Vlasak posted to the site detailing his TC you will see on the fourth paragraph this statement: "The story takes place in the area called the Dalelands ? a part of the Forgotten Realms campaign, untouched by other Infinity Engine games, though it is a higly attractive setting. BG2 Addon CZ does not in any part follow the stories of any of the Infinity Enginu games - it?a brand new tale."

So please tell me how he will have a TC based in a " part of the Forgotten Realms campaign, untouched by other Infinity Engine games" without "erasing or even modifying (by this mod) any quests, creatures, or areas"?

If you are going to make statements without reading the information available please at least have back up for them.

Peace out...

[TruePurple]

He says he had already added the feature to that particular TC (of the link) but the NLC system itself isn't a TC from what I see.

Edited by TruePurple, 12 July 2005 - 11:30 AM.