60 replies to this topic

[Quitch]

Various mods use different styles for the basic layout of dialogue.

The Nalia romance uses the traditional Baldur's Gate II approach, all talk, almost no action.

Rowan is going to use the Baldur's Gate II layout, but will be PST in approach, including quite a bit in the way of actions.

Return to Windspear is pure PST, using quote marks to signify talk and anything outside them is an action.

Here's an example:

Baldur's Gate II - Traditional (BG2 Style & Layout)

Imoen: Heya! It's me, Imoen! (grin)


Baldur's Gate II - Literal (PST Style & BG2 Layout)

Imoen: Heya! It's me, Imoen! (she punches you playfully on the arm)


Planescape: Torment (PSY Style & Layout)

Imoen: "Heya! It's me, Imoen!" She punches you playfully on the arm.


Here are a couple of more more complex one:

Baldur's Gate II - Traditional (BG2 Style & Layout)

Imoen: He...help me...

Imoen: Thanks, little brother/sister!


Baldur's Gate II - Literal (PST Style & BG2 Layout)

Imoen: He...help me... (desperation evident in her eyes, she slips slowly to the floor, her nails digging into your hand as she tries to support herself)

Imoen: Thanks, little brother/sister! (she hugs you so tightly that you struggle to breathe)


Planescape: Torment (PSY Style & Layout)

Imoen: "He...help me..." Desperation evident in her eyes, she slips slowly to the floor, her nails digging into your hand as she tries to support herself.

Imoen: "Thanks, little brother/sister!" She hugs you so tightly that you struggle to breathe.


The question is, which style should I use? Is consistency the most important thing to you? Or do you prefer depth? The later two systems obviously provide a lot more in the way of emotional depth, at least I'd say so. The PST system has an advantage over the BG2 - Literal one in that someone can mutter under their breath in the same dialog box as an action. BG2 Literal struggles to do this:

Baldur's Gate II - Literal (BG2/PST Style & BG2 Layout)

Imoen: (careful... careful) (your purse suddenly feels a lot lighter)


Baldur's Gate II - Literal (Pure PST Style & BG2 Layout)

Imoen: Careful... careful. (these mutterings are followed by the feeling that your purse is lighter than it was)


Planescape: Torment (PSY Style & Layout)

Imoen: "Careful... careful." These mutterings are followed by the feeling that you purse is lighter than it was.


So, for BG2 literal there's also the matter of how whispering is to be handled. When Edwin mutters under his breath, it is done within brackets. To be utterly faithful to the BG2 layout, the Imoen Relationship mod would need to do it this way. However, to lean further towards the PST style avoids a clash of action and mutter brackets.

Let me know what you think.

[Gospel]

*paws his ear* I think Planescape Torment's style is super catasticly better, Quitchy :D

*purrs* :D

[Kylindra]

PST style ^^

[Ereion]

I prefer the BG II literal

[xdv]

I prefer the Planescape: Torment dialog style, with a massive use of actions, descriptions of characters' body language and appearance. For example when you first start a dialog with an NPC, the 1st part of the dialog is your 1st impression about him.
These things are highly important for me in pnp ad&d and so they are in crpg, but unfortunately, the only game these things were used was ps:t, adding them to bg2 would be great!

[Quitch]

Imoen: (muttered) careful... careful...

I've never liked doing it that way. To suggest the way in which they are speaking using only one word really breaks the flow for me. I mean:

Imoen: (normal) Heya!

Could you imagine that all the time? Of course, you default to normal, but whenever you want to change the style you need to tack a word in front? No, I've thought of it before and still don't like it.

I prefer the Planescape: Torment dialog style

Yes, but do you prefer that laid out the same way as PST does it, or rather, put into a BG2 shell?

The PST "style" is the heavy use of description, while the PST "layout" is quotes around speech and none around actions.

[Wynne]

Baldur's Gate II - Literal

Imoen: (careful... careful) (your purse suddenly feels a lot lighter)


Planescape: Torment

Imoen: "Careful... careful." These mutterings are followed by the feeling that you purse is lighter than it was.

Your slant here is quite obvious. I prefer...

Imoen: Careful... careful. (These mutterings are followed by the feeling that your purse is a lot lighter than it was.)

However, I am perfectly ready to see your P:ST style dialogue for Imoen... if you are prepared to also convert the rest of BG2 and its mods to the same format. Then it would not feel out of place.

[oopsilon]

I've just started a game of PST and it's great how it conveys the character's body language and gives you the feel of actually being in the Nameless One's position. However, I'm more inclined to go with BG2 literal format just to make the Quitch-Imoen dialogues flow with the rest of the game so that a first time player wouldn't be able to tell the difference between Bioware-Imoen and Quitch-Imoen.

[Rathwellin the Bard]

I've just started a game of PST and it's great how it conveys the character's body language and gives you the feel of actually being in the Nameless One's position. However, I'm more inclined to go with BG2 literal format just to make the Quitch-Imoen dialogues flow with the rest of the game so that a first time player wouldn't be able to tell the difference between Bioware-Imoen and Quitch-Imoen.

I've never played PST & before I started beta testing RTW which does contain some PST Imoen dialogue by Quitch I would have agreed.

However now that I have seen it I am a PST convert. I got to see two PST Quitch dialogues followed by a regular ToB Imoen dialogue & I have to say that there was just no comparison. The PST like dialogues were MUCH better IMO.

Yes the style is different & it is immidiately apparent when Quitch's stuff is on screen vs the Bio stuff, but more and more I think that this is a good thing.

My vote is PST style all the way.

[Gospel]

*licks a paw* What do you mean "Oh, it's Quitch-Imoen style", everyone? :D

It's a mod: It's supposed to be different, it's supposed to change the game... or add things that weren't there :D

How can you be seamless when people know (in general) what your mod does? :D

For example, people wouldn't say "JCompton-Kelsey is written just like Bioware-Kelsey!", for obvious reasons ^_^ Right, sirs and siresses? :D

[Cuv]

I am undecided when it comes to Imoen. I prefer the PST style for RTW.. but to have Imoen talk this way during a regular BG2 game might be very distracting. Not sure. There are just too many dialogs to convert all of BG2....hehe, so dont even ask for that.

Cuv

[Littiz]

Come on guys, it's not THAT important!
Just have Imoen talk a little more, whatever the style!

[Gospel]

Well, it's a question of attitude and goals.

When I write for a Bioware character, ultimately, my goal is for the player to not be consciously aware that they are reading something that was written at least a year (now almost two) after the game hit the shelves. I want them to be able to believe that it either was always part of the game, or COULD always have been part of the game. Not, "Oh. Boy, that's got Compton written all over it, yes siree. Whoo, I guess I can tally off banter #6 of the 9 I was expecting now."

That does not mean slavishly parroting their vocabulary and rehashing only those details of their lives Bioware established, but it DOES, in my mind and my approach, mean remaining true to those details of their character we DO know about, and, yes, remaining true to the method in which they are presented. (Everyone is of course free to argue my relative success at doing this, but it's what's in my heart.)

Yes, of COURSE we'll all know if we download and install Quitch's Imoen Relationship that the stuff we don't remember seeing our last time through is his. I know my immersion will be better preserved if it's not obvious JUST ON SURFACE APPEARANCE that I'm reading something coded up two years after the game was completed, though.

Ok, JCompton ^_^

However, I believe Quitchy is planning on using more actions in his/her mod, anyway. Be it in BG2's format, or PST's. If Imoen's going to be active and full of life, it might be best to use a style that better represents that, IE. Planescape Torment's. :) *raises a paw!*

*rolls on his back!* Since it'll be different anyway, might as well go all out *purrs* :D

[Quitch]

Imoen: (muttered) careful... careful...

I've never liked doing it that way. To suggest the way in which they are speaking using only one word really breaks the flow for me. I mean:

Imoen: (normal) Heya!

Could you imagine that all the time?

No, of course not. But while you would write

"Geez, Quitch asks a lot of questions he doesn't actually want to hear the answers to," muttered Imoen.

you wouldn't write

"Heya," said Imoen, normally.

either. Same difference.

"Geez, jcompton sure does take himself seriously."

He sure does

I may have raised the point, J, but what good is served by my accepting the first argument that comes along? That's what leads to indecision when different people want different things. Far better to argue the merits of each style and see which comes out the victor.

There is some Imoen dialogue in Return to Windspear which happens during a Bioware bit, and all the banter with the new NPC is written in the PST layout and style. When it comes out I'd reccomend you take a look and see what you think.

You might decide you like the whole package, or maybe just the actions but not the layout? It might be that you find the actions distract from the dialogue without adding anything.

Come on guys, it's not THAT important!
Just have Imoen talk a little more, whatever the style!

Yes, but if people finds that a suddent change in style breaks their suspension of disbelief, then I think it matters.

Then it would not feel out of place.

Irrelevant. The issue is whether it matters to you that the style or layout might vary from that of Bioware, be it through actions or format. Having Imoen speak may feel "out of place" since she hasn't done it before, but that doesn't make it a bad thing.

Oh, and I've updated the initial examples, and given them the correct style and layout titles.

[Lazarus Long]

"PS:T Style an Layout"

Because the style-break isn't iportant, IMHO (you would see the different between an Bioware-Imoen dialog and a another regardless the style...)

But many actions, body language are important, because it makes the dialog more real and it is easier to understand the NPC...

And for that PS:T is ideal.. the other styles (also the BG2-PS:T-hybrids) aren't so good... who would like want to read the half of the dialog in brackets?

[Gospel]

Or both :D