38 replies to this topic

[oralpain]

Something else that's been bugging me- If the Abyss is limitless, and the Nine-Hells only have nine planes, then why is it that the Blood War still rages on?

Which also reminds me- where can I read more on the Blood War?

The Tanar'ri significantly out number the Baatezu. The average Tanar'ri is also more powerful than the average Baatezu. The Tanar'ri are not doning any better than the Baatezu in the Blood War. This is why: the Baatezu are a unified race and the high-ups can give compentent orders that they can reasonably expect to be followed. Organization and tactics are the Baatezu's greatest weapon, and the equalizer of the Blood War.

You can read more about the Blood War in the Planescape books "Hellbound: The Blood War" and "Faces of Evil: The Fiends". There are many other books and magzines with information, but those two are the most useful.

Edited by oralpain, 08 June 2005 - 09:20 AM.

[Stone Wolf]

Most Tanar'ri spend more time trying to avoid fighting in the blood war than anything else.

Also, the Yugoloths do their best to keep things going as they are. Since both sides use them as mercenaries they can do a lot to keep things even. Now that they've stripped the Teleport Without Error ability from other fiends they can offer to give it back in exchange for...just about anything. The Blood War is a stalematee because the Yugoloths want it to be.

[NiGHTMARE]

And since Planescape is no longer officially supported, the Blood War really will go on forever, ever unchanging .

[Stone Wolf]

The Upper Planes will like that, since if the Baatezu and Tanar'ri ever stopped fighting each other, they could overwhelm the Upper Planes easily.

[oralpain]

There are more powerful forces than the Yugoloth race that would like to see the Blood War continue to stalemate. Even if the Yoougoloths firmly and totaly sided with one or the the other, it would only be a temporary advantage for the other side.

And since Planescape is no longer officially supported, the Blood War really will go on forever, ever unchanging.

Only if thats the way you want it in your game.

[Echon]

Yes, there is roughly 100 times as many Tanar'ri as there are Baatezu. They are too chaotic to properly coorperate, though. There is a reason why the Chasme's primary purpose is to find Tanar'ri that are not actively involved in the Blood War.

-Echon

[Archmage Silver]

Surely if we played according to the "official" acceptances, it wouldn't be so entertaining. Of course making the Bloodwar end in some way inside a game would be a bit too much tho...

[oralpain]

While reading about the abyss I found some mention of molidei , apparently powerful demons responsible for blood war "recruitment". However, I wasn't able to find any sort of description. How dows a molideus look like and what power does it have? (and who is their superior if any?

And another thing. Is the material world visible from astral?(in the space where they overlap). I only found a mention in kuo-toa description that they can spot astral travellers but no other info about possible ways of interaction.

Unlike the ethereal there is no border astral, so they don't technically overlap. If you are physically in the astral, you cannot see the prime, or outer planes, in the vast majority of cases.

The astral spell can be used to send a beins astral form to the astral plane. From the astral plane the astral form can then move, by various means (normally a color pool), back to the beings home plane and invisibly and insubstantialy observe. The method or similar ones are usually the only time an astral being can directly observe the prime, or that a prime being (with appropreate senses) can directly observe the astral.

Edited by oralpain, 09 June 2005 - 07:55 AM.

[Andyr]

Now that they've stripped the Teleport Without Error ability from other fiends they can offer to give it back in exchange for...just about anything.

Actually, I was wondering if much had been written about that - I remember seeing it mentioned in Hellbound or somewhere but not why they've done it. Anyone care to enlighten?

[oralpain]

Now that they've stripped the Teleport Without Error ability from other fiends they can offer to give it back in exchange for...just about anything.

Actually, I was wondering if much had been written about that - I remember seeing it mentioned in Hellbound or somewhere but not why they've done it. Anyone care to enlighten?

The entire adventure "War Games" (part of "Hellbound: The Blood War") is about this event.

A very basic sketch of the event:

Maeldur Et Kavurik, an ancient, fallen, corrupted, former celestial (probably an Aasmion) has the power to grant the ability to teleport without error, at will, to any being whose name is known to him. He has forgotten his own name and is so physically deformed (a huge, multi-tentacled blob), that he cannot escape the Yougoloths that hold him.

The Maeldur knows the names of all Yugoloths, Baatezu, and Tanar'ri. This is the origin of their ability to teleport. Only the absolute highest ranking Yugoloths are aware of this, however.

A Baatezu force stumbles upon Maldur while attacking a Yugoloth fortress and brings him back to Baator.

Near the conclusion of the adventure the PCs find the Maeldur and tell him his name. The Maeldur, having suffered for eons, wants nothing more than to forget everything and so teleports itself directly over the river styx and falls in, thereby forgetting everything. The Yugoloths haul him back out and give it all of thier names, but not those of the other fiends. They now quietly offer the return of the teleportation ability to most any useful being that will swear allegaince to them.

Read the adventure if you want more detail, or better yet, play it.

[Andyr]

Cheers.

[Lord-Jyssev]

here is a great site

[discharger12]

In reference to the Molydeus's treasure, what is a nil?

[Stone Wolf]

It means no treasure at all, not even coins. Technically you could get the axe is you don't kill the Molydeus, but that's probably more trouble than it's worth.

[oralpain]

Nil treasure would mean purely incidental treasure. They normaly wouldn't retain wealth or have a lair.

If one was just bribed in order to keep it from focrefully recruiting someone into the bloo war armies (wich does happen from time to time), it would obviously have that cash/gems/magic on it.

The great Balor general Illssender has a Molydeus, who dared to question Illssender's devotion to the cause, chained up in his tower, so that he may make use of it's axe (in adition to his own sword). The captive is kept weak and tormented by a system that drips acid into it's eyes on a daily basis.

[discharger12]

Oh. I find it annoying that the most powerful creatures in D&D have almost no treasure.

Anyway, thanks for all the answers everyone.

[oralpain]

I find it annoying that the most powerful creatures in D&D have almost no treasure.

Many powerful beings have a significant amount of treasure and make use of it.

The role and nature of Molydei precludes them from the need for most material wealth. They are perpetually wandering recruiters and enforcers. They don't lead armies, get directly involved in politics, or have permanent lairs. They are also poweful enough to take most of what they want, when they want it, so they don't often need things like money.

Concerning treasure Molydei are more the exception than the rule.

Also remeber that if an intelegent being has treasure, it will likey use it. Treasure is not just a static pile that sits around waiting for something to take it form it's owner. Well not in any plausible pnp game. Even creatures like dragons will make use of the magic in their hordes for defense or subterfuge.