It seems that Bioware has decided to renounce at this old cliche "the main character is the Chosen One/son of god/the savior and so on". I think it's a good idea. It was nice in BG, but, when it is too much, it becomes annoying.
David Gaider quotation :
"Right. We get it.
YOU ARE NOT THE CHOSEN ONE IN DRAGON AGE.
There is no prophecy that has heralded your coming. You are not selected by a higher power. You are not the only one who can deliver the land from evil."
You are not the One
Started by Feanor, May 25 2005 11:44 PM
25 replies to this topic
#2
Archmage Silver
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Master of The Art
Posted 25 May 2005 - 11:53 PM
Nice change. Although I presume that you'll end up being the major villain/hero? Heh heh, not that it could be any other way.
#3
SConrad
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I swear to drunk I'm not God
Posted 25 May 2005 - 11:59 PM
Thank you, Bioware.
Khadion NPC mod - Team leader, head designer
Hubelpot NPC mod - Team leader, coder
NPC Damage - Coder
PC Soundsets - Coder, voice actor
Brythe NPC mod - Designer
DragonLance TC - Glory of Istar - Designer
The NPC Interaction Expansion Project - Writer for Cernd, Sarevok
The Jerry Zinger Show - Producer
Iron Modder 5 - Winner
#4
femalepaladin
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Posted 23 July 2005 - 04:23 AM
It would be good to be a nobody who saves the world instead of the One destined to save the world. 
"you are the Diet Coke of Evil. just one calorie, not even enough" Dr Evil.
#5
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Posted 26 July 2005 - 04:56 PM
"Right. We get it.
YOU ARE NOT THE CHOSEN ONE IN DRAGON AGE.
There is no prophecy that has heralded your coming. You are not selected by a higher power. You are not the only one who can deliver the land from evil."
Actually, this isn't such an original idea, I recall something like this in another game by Bioware, I also recall that the game sucked, a lot.
This isn't enough to completely turn me away from the game, but if the plot has anything similar to "<CHARNAME> is a nobody in a prestigious academy of full of nobodies when a sudden attack by another bunch of nobodies launched our nobody hero/heroine on a meaningless quest"
or
"<CHARNAME> is a nobody in a insignificant school of four nobodies when a sudden attack by kobolds launched our nobody hero/heroine on another meaningless quest"
But it couldn't be that bad, could it?
#6
Tom
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moT
Posted 26 July 2005 - 06:48 PM
I guess we'll be seeing quests to walk down the road to the bakery to fetch the bread then... 
I'm not sure I like this choice, but it certainly doesn't mean the game will be bad. Surely the PC will still be the hero/villian, otherwise it could be rather boring IMO.
I'm not sure I like this choice, but it certainly doesn't mean the game will be bad. Surely the PC will still be the hero/villian, otherwise it could be rather boring IMO.
Forward he cried from the rear
And the front rank died
And the general sat and the lines on the map
Moved from side to side.
And the front rank died
And the general sat and the lines on the map
Moved from side to side.
#7
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Posted 26 July 2005 - 08:41 PM
I guess we'll be seeing quests to walk down the road to the bakery to fetch the bread then...
While in town the baker gives you a sweetroll. Delighted, you take it into an alley to enjoy, only to be intercepted by a gang of three other kids your age. The leader demands the sweetroll, or else he and his friends will beat you and take it.
Would you:
1. Drop the sweetroll and step on it, then get ready for the fight?
2. Give him the sweetroll now without argument, knowing that later this afternoon you will have all your friends with you and can come and take whatever he owes you?
3. Act like you're going to give him the sweetroll, but at the last minute throw it in the air, hoping that they'll pay attention to it long enough for you to get a shot in on the leader?
Sorry.
Anyway, the problem with a nobody main character is that the plotline would often be forced. While in multi-player mode, non-fated characters are okay, but in single character mode, main characters almost have to be fated to make plot work.
In a way, in single player mode, fated characters actually have more freedom than non-fated characters:
For example:
Morrowind: You play the fated character, Nerevar Reborn, your destiny is fixed: to fight and defeat Dagoth Ur. However, how and when you get there is completely up to you. Essentially you have the entirety of Morrowind to yourself until your fated encounter.
Now compare that to:
Neverwinter Nights: You play a "non-fated" character, but you must defeat the lizard queen because, well, it's chapter 4 and you are pretty much limited to a prison consisting of the main courtyard, the "war zone" and the lizard queen's lair.
(I know repeatedly referencing Neverwinter Nights as "all things games should not be" is like beating a dead horse, but I believe that dead horses are fully beatable so long as there are points to be beaten out of it.
)
#8
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Posted 27 July 2005 - 01:09 AM
Don't mean to sound like a complete megalomaniac, but if the game is not going to be centered around the main character, then what's to keep the game interesting? How is the pc going to stand out from the rest of the npc's? 
If the storyline is not handled properly is has a great potential to be utterly bland.
If the storyline is not handled properly is has a great potential to be utterly bland.
#9
Delight
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Posted 27 July 2005 - 02:08 AM
I think that they would have to make the game more experience centered, i.e. player would have to be too busy enjoying the environment to pay attention to the character's destiny.
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#10
Tom
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moT
Posted 27 July 2005 - 09:20 PM
While in town the baker gives you a sweetroll. Delighted, you take it into an alley to enjoy, only to be intercepted by a gang of three other kids your age. The leader demands the sweetroll, or else he and his friends will beat you and take it.
Im glad someone picked up on this
Don't mean to sound like a complete megalomaniac, but if the game is not going to be centered around the main character, then what's to keep the game interesting? How is the pc going to stand out from the rest of the npc's?
If the storyline is not handled properly is has a great potential to be utterly bland.
I think that they would have to make the game more experience centered, i.e. player would have to be too busy enjoying the environment to pay attention to the character's destiny.
Not necesarily, just because the main character isnt THE CHOSEN ONE, doesnt mean that the PC doesnt do great things etc. It does mean there is a little less motivation for certain players to do said things, but it doesnt mean that the PC will be yet another farmer who gets killed by the group of kobolds down the road.
It could also mean that the game centers more around a party (a la IWD) rather than the one main character.
Forward he cried from the rear
And the front rank died
And the general sat and the lines on the map
Moved from side to side.
And the front rank died
And the general sat and the lines on the map
Moved from side to side.
#11
hlidskialf
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Incarnation of the Eternal Ale Warrior
Posted 27 July 2005 - 09:29 PM
Sounds like old style PnP to me. I'm all for it.
The great wolf Fenrir gapes ever at the dwelling of the gods.
#12
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Posted 27 July 2005 - 11:37 PM
Sounds like old style PnP to me. I'm all for it.
That is the partially the problem with a completely "variable" non-fated main character. The computer is never as flexible as a human DM, while human DM can alter the plotline to suit the players, a computer cannot as effectively do so. And often this results in a round character being forced through a square character plotline.
The only game that I'm aware of that comes even close to mimicking PnP gameplay is Darklands by the now defunct Microprose. The game itself suffered from many aspects (ignoring the myriads of bugs that plagued the game itself) such as
1. A too simple but obscure plot (the main quest to defeat Baphomet is never explicitly stated, hence you can wander around for days real time and not know what the point is, if you figure it out at all).
2. The villains appear literally by Deus ex Machina and are completely one dimensional
3. Unification of characteristics: the only way to progress through the main quest is to act as the paragon of virtue (medieval virtue, at least) and ruthlessly slaughter/convert by the sword villages and pagans. Hence by the end, your roleplaying will eventually converge to the practically the same characters.
#13
Delight
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Posted 28 July 2005 - 07:23 AM
I think that a good non-epic-cRPG should be more difficult than the normal one, so that player would be really satisfied with killing/defeating "minor" opponents like thugs and bandits.
Some quests that would use the negotiation skills of the character would be nice too.
I loved F2 for the free exploration and I didn't like the fact that I have to save the world (again).
I think that doing normal quests would be more interesting.
Some quests that would use the negotiation skills of the character would be nice too.
I loved F2 for the free exploration and I didn't like the fact that I have to save the world (again).
I think that doing normal quests would be more interesting.
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#14
Vita Muerte
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Posted 29 July 2005 - 12:51 PM
I don't know. I'm still not sure what to make of DA. I tend to prefer games where the storyline outweighs the action; BG1, 2 and Ps:T are a prime example. If I really wanted some hack-slash game I would certainly go for Doom and such.
#15
Tom
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moT
Posted 30 July 2005 - 04:05 AM
I don't know. I'm still not sure what to make of DA. I tend to prefer games where the storyline outweighs the action; BG1, 2 and Ps:T are a prime example. If I really wanted some hack-slash game I would certainly go for Doom and such.
I agree, its for this reason why I didnt like Diablo.
Forward he cried from the rear
And the front rank died
And the general sat and the lines on the map
Moved from side to side.
And the front rank died
And the general sat and the lines on the map
Moved from side to side.
#16
Delight
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Posted 30 July 2005 - 05:21 AM
I agree too, it's the reason why I don't like BG2, ID2, Diablo, Diablo 2 .
I like cRPGs that have a lot of (stats influenced) dialogs.
I like when NPCs adore my CHA (Beauty if available^^) 20 elven enchantress
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.I like cRPGs that have a lot of (stats influenced) dialogs.
I like when NPCs adore my CHA (Beauty if available^^) 20 elven enchantress
.
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#17
Grunker
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Prince Charming
Posted 11 October 2005 - 02:45 PM
Don't mean to sound like a complete megalomaniac, but if the game is not going to be centered around the main character, then what's to keep the game interesting? How is the pc going to stand out from the rest of the npc's?
If the storyline is not handled properly is has a great potential to be utterly bland.
I don't think the PC is going to stand out, except from the fact that he's the leader. I recall the developers saying the game would be about what the PC wanted it to be about: Personal goals, doing good, or the like.
I just hope it won't be another Morrorwind
"I've heard people complain that the game [the new Prince of Persia] is too easy, which seems odd to me, since I died more times than The Nameless One in a smoothie-maker."
- Yahtzee
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#18
Feanor
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The Elven Lord
Posted 12 October 2005 - 01:08 AM
I just hope it won't be another Morrorwind
In what respect another Morrowind ?
#19
Grunker
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Prince Charming
Posted 12 October 2005 - 06:22 AM
In the respect that it's a totally open game, with no main plot.
Main plots limits the game of course, but it does enable the developers to make a more interesting story.
Main plots limits the game of course, but it does enable the developers to make a more interesting story.
"I've heard people complain that the game [the new Prince of Persia] is too easy, which seems odd to me, since I died more times than The Nameless One in a smoothie-maker."
- Yahtzee
- Yahtzee
#20
Echon
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Planewanker
Posted 12 October 2005 - 06:44 AM
In the respect that it's a totally open game, with no main plot.
Morrowind certainly has a plot around which the game is centered. There difference here is that you are not forced to pursue this plot unlike certain other games.
-Echon
