77 replies to this topic

[Deathsangel]

Okay, what is this thread about? Well I'm asking for a little help from all of you.
Why? Well, if the team (5 members now) are going to do this all by our own, it is going to be next year untill we have everything.

Thus, the question (insert drum sounds):

When playing through the game and you find one of the following three things missing: evil/more threating dialogue options missing, evil outcomes missing to old quest, placement options (see below for examples).

write it down and report here

But there are some rules. Right it down in a neat way. Examples:

Dialogue option
Creature: John Irenicus
Location: Spellhold
When: Incaged, before he sucks spirit empty (Insert line-reference if possible)
What: More threatening option

New evil outcome
Quest: Freeing Hendak
Location: Copper Corronet
Change: Need more xp for helping Lethinan by killing Hendak or needs to be more develed into

Placement options
Creature/Quest: Government district, neigbouring house of Anomen-family and one where Sir Charles is
Reason: House is not needed for any other quest. Can be nice spot for political murder

Other rules:

Don't add evil outcomes like: "I couldn't slid their throat". That is just hack and slash. This is not a mod just for CE people and you can do that just by force attacking.

We decide in the end what is used an not

Request:

Don't post things double

[Deathsangel]

post of Chooch moved to "General questions about the mod"

[Sir Kalthorine]

New evil outcome
Quest: The Buried Man in the Graveyard District
Location: Outside Copper Corronet
Change: Instead of just ransoming the woman and getting the silver pantaloons as a reward, why not kidnap the guy offering you the pantaloons and ransom him as well?  After all, a truly evil party would be insulted by the ransom offered...

Edited by Sir Kalthorine, 13 May 2005 - 06:33 AM.

[Deathsangel]

Sir Kalthorine, on May 13 2005, 02:23 PM, said:

New evil outcome
Quest: The Buried Man in the Graveyard District
Location: Outside Copper Corronet
Change: Instead of just ransoming the woman and getting the silver pantaloons as a reward, why not kidnap the guy offering you the pantaloons and ransom him as well?  After all, a truly evil party would be insulted by the ransom offered...

... I had to react! When is the ransom high enough Sir Kalthorine? This can go on forever... it can be alike taking over the business...

By the way, this is indeed a good example of how here should be posted and thanks for the idea :thumb:

Edited by Deathsangel, 13 May 2005 - 06:58 AM.

[NiGHTMARE]

If you kidnapped someone who arrived to pay a ransom, the people that person represnted would undoubtedly think twice before sending someone else to pay another ransom .

Edited by NiGHTMARE, 13 May 2005 - 09:28 AM.

[Western Paladin]

New evil outcomes
Quest: Trouble at the Druid Grove (Trademeet)
Change: Needs more depth to evil path (currently an evil halfling asks you to poison the grove; if you do, good NPCs hate you and you have to cut your way out)

Edited by Western Paladin, 14 May 2005 - 04:22 AM.

[Lord Kain]

New Evil Outcome
Quest: Unseeing Eye plot
Change: Give the rift device to the Unseeing Eye. Granted the beholder mage is unlikly to give you a reward. But that doesn't mean you couldn't make him a more reasonible and lawful evil being.

[edit] Post edited as to keep it in the style of this topic, as it was moved from another topic.

Edited by Deathsangel, 05 June 2005 - 01:36 PM.

[Deathsangel]

Lord Kain, on Jun 5 2005, 08:18 PM, said:

New Evil Outcome
Quest: Unseeing Eye plot
Change: Give the rift device to the Unseeing Eye. Granted the beholder mage is unlikly to give you a reward. But that doesn't mean you couldn't make him a more reasonible and lawful evil being.

The rift device can already be given to Gaal , high priest of the Unseeing Eye in the unmodded version of BG2. Or do you mean that he should give you a reward and not betray you as in the in the unmodded version?

Edited by Deathsangel, 05 June 2005 - 01:36 PM.

[Lord Kain]

well you don't really give it to him, as much as he takes it from you if you happend to have it. I mean you should actually get something out of it. Or maybe you should kill Gaal and blackmail the beholder mage for it.

Now this is an idea I have for evil fighters who have control over Nalia's keep. What about expanding your little kingdom. The Umar Hills aren't controlled by any noble. And I guess you don't really need to have the keep to take over the Umar Hills.
Aside from a few extra quests to hold onto your new lands you can have increased income each week from taxes with out.
If you don't have the keep then you can use the ranger cabin.

If you are a ranger you'd be fallen for taking control of the village instead of protecting it.

Edited by Lord Kain, 05 June 2005 - 04:57 PM.

[Deathsangel]

Lord Kain, on Jun 6 2005, 12:39 AM, said:

well you don't really give it to him, as much as he takes it from you if you happend to have it. I mean you should actually get something out of it. Or maybe you should kill Gaal and blackmail the beholder mage for it.

Which person are you now aiming at with beholder mage then for I thought you meant Gaal.

[Lord Kain]

Deathsangel, on Jun 6 2005, 12:59 PM, said:

Lord Kain, on Jun 6 2005, 12:39 AM, said:

well you don't really give it to him, as much as he takes it from you if you happend to have it. I mean you should actually get something out of it. Or maybe you should kill Gaal and blackmail the beholder mage for it.

Which person are you now aiming at with beholder mage then for I thought you meant Gaal.

Well Gaal just takes the device from you have your half and talk to him. I'm thinking you kill Gaal and blackmail the beholder mage (unseeing eye) for your half of the device. Or better yet. When you complete the Rod you blackmail the Unseeing Eye for it.

[Deathsangel]

Lord Kain, on Jun 6 2005, 09:10 PM, said:

Well Gaal just takes the device from you have your half and talk to him. I'm thinking you kill Gaal and blackmail the beholder mage (unseeing eye) for your half of the device. Or better yet. When you complete the Rod you blackmail the Unseeing Eye for it.

Problem is what the Unseeing eye would do with such power... He would control Amn and that leads to problems. I reckon it is better to stick with the betrayel path, but thanks for the discussion. I will think on it a bit more.

[Pain Elemental]

The first thing that pops in my mind is of course the conflict between The Shadow Thiefs and Bodhi.
You need to pick one in the game and you're unable to switch sides.
I think it would be loads of fun if you could work for the Thiefs, betray them, work for Bodhi, betray her as well, then steal a ship and leave them both in ruins...

[Deathsangel]

MftW will provide a new way Pain Elemental. It it will be hard to program betrayal for they already go instantly hostile as you join one side. I am going to add one for another evil way. Perhaps even one extra neutral way as well.

I can see the betray stuff and thought of it, but that would be very tricky to do.

Thank you for your idea though I appreciate all the help I'm getting :thumb:

[Pain Elemental]

Deathsangel, on Jun 7 2005, 04:11 PM, said:

Thank you for your idea though I appreciate all the help I'm getting :thumb:

No problem, I like to help a fellow Dutchlander (MUHAHAHA )

Jokes aside, I came up with another.

When you try to escape Spellhold, after you turn into a Slayer, you get the tests of the Tester Apparition. I was a bit disappointed at the results.

1) You're satisfactory, Boom, some XP
2)You're not satisfactory, Boom, a few monsters

This could be edited into something nice, like betraying/tricking the Tester Apparition into letting you go or give him a counter riddle to make his head explode. (requires more then 18 WIS and INT)

What ya think?

[Torn]

That's an interesting idea, but not necessarily an evil one. I'd imagine an evil character would be pissed off at having to jump through hoops for that guy; why not have ways to infuriate him and deliberately not answer his questions the way he wants? I'm thinking of the scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, at the bridge:

'What is the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?'
'African or European?'
'What? I don't know tha-AAAUGH!'

Break the testing 'mechanism', in other words, and find your own way out of their. (Perhaps the tester drops the room-changing device, and you have to figure out how to get it to work to get you to the exit?)

Granted, that's not particularly evil either, but it's an idea. And I'm sure there are ways to evillify it.

[Pain Elemental]

Well, lets start at the beginning....

Firstly,

There should be an option to convert your non-evil party members into evil ones, changing their alignment and protrait if that's able.

Imoen:
With the right dialog options to futher her hatred against the torture of Irenicus and the people he has killed. The PC could prey on those thoughts and convince her to turn that hatred into power. This could develope futher after she gets her soul stripped, slipping futher into the essence of Bhaal

Minsc:
Hard one, I think the PC should prey on his 2 mayor weaknesses, namely,
1) His hamster
2) The murder of Dynaheir.

Jaheira:
Also a tough, I think her loneliness and the death of Khalid are a powerful combination. Also, the PC could follow the romance, to manipulate her in the end.

Yoshimo:
Just treat him badly, kill him, and make him suffer by binding his spirit to the mortal world by using his heart in an evil ritual.

Aerie:
Hm, I think the PC should focus on the romance dialogs about her finding herself useless. The PC should use that as a means, together with her hatred for drow. At the end of the romance, Aerie should be given a final unseemly task to "prove her loyalty.

Anomen:
Adding some extra options at the Anomen Family Quest. Convince him and let him fail his knightly test. Then manipulate him in taking a complete revenge.

Haer'Dalis:
Of course, his part Demon blood should help, but I don't really have any futher idea's though. I think you should change the playhouse quest, maybe trapping his fellow actors.

Jan:
No freakin' Idea

Keldorn:
The main trick would be his wife cheating. By editing this quest, you could help him get his revenge in a more unseemly way.

Nalia:
No freakin' Idea I know it has to be done with her keep quest, but I don't have inspiration right now. Perhaps her deep hatred to nobles and the death of her father.

Cernd:
No freakin' Idea , I never take him into my party.

Mazzy:
Preying on the fact that she can never be a true paladin, then convince her to walk away from that path. The Amanuator Temple quest could be the perfect thing to futher fuel some hatred.

Valygar:
His sphere quest, in combination with his hatred for his family. Discover the truth, kill Lavoc or make him suffer, then lie to Valygar.

[Pain Elemental]

New evil outcomes (dun dun dun )

Irenicus Dungeon

The genie at the beginning.
Maybe a bit more threatening dialog, or a more evil outcome.

Plane of Air djinni.
New evil outcome, pretend to help him, steal the sword, seal him and let him suffer eternally.

Dryads:
New evil outcome, pretend to help them, grab the flask and the acorns, seal the djinni, grind the acrons into dust before their very eyes .

Waukeen's Promenade

The circus tent quest, a new evil outcome, taunt Kalah, let Quayle be killed, then make Aerie go furious at let her kill Kalah in a horrible way.

Slums

Fight some Brigands near Copper Coronet:
Maybe some more threatening.

I believe the Copper Coronet quests / Slavers are well covered, so I'll skip that

Amalas' Duel in the Coronet:
Maybe a bit more evil dialog

I'll have to cut this a bit short. I'm at work at the moment

[Deathsangel]

Pain Elemental, on Jun 9 2005, 12:33 PM, said:

Firstly,

There should be an option to convert your non-evil party members into evil ones, changing their alignment and protrait if that's able.

I am sorry Pain Elemental, but many of the NPC corruptions will not be there. I credit some strong minds. At the moment there is one NPC that is being corrupted by Kido. However, this isn't the main goal of MftW, but of Midnight Visitor. We will add 5 (!) new evil NPC's, so you can do whatever you like in that way as well.

I thank you for new dialogue options and evil outcomes. There are certainly some good ideas there we can implement.

Edited by Deathsangel, 09 June 2005 - 05:25 AM.

[Sir Kalthorine]

Just a couple of ideas to help overcome some mental blanks:

Pain Elemental, on Jun 9 2005, 01:33 PM, said:

Jan:
No freakin' Idea   

For Jan, how about poisoning his former girlfriend and her daughter and framing her husband for it - then Jan could be persuaded that simply murdering her "evil" husband is too good for him, and that instead he should do the same to the husband's family (e.g. murdering his mother, sister, or whatever). If that doesn't turn Jan to the "Dark Side", I don't know what will!

Quote

Nalia:
No freakin' Idea    I know it has to be done with her keep quest, but I don't have inspiration right now. Perhaps her deep hatred to nobles and the death of her father.

Here is a thought - keep sewing seeds of doubt in Nalia's mind as to whether or not "Aunt" Delcia was in league with the Roenalls in plotting the fall of the Keep and her father's murder. She could be wound up so tightly that she could then easily be persuaded to kill her Aunt (since a Noble will always find a way of escaping "regular" justice). Then let her find out that her Aunt was innocent all along (just obnoxious!), and as a result the PC has evidence that could lead to Nalia's execution if the authorities ever found out. Nalia would be forced to do the PC's bidding to avoid being arrested, and this - in addition to her guilt at murdering her "innocent" Aunt - would utterly undermine and destroy her free will and self-belief until it becomes an easy task to persuade her to embrace evil.

[EDIT]Just read Deathsangel's comments about not needing NPC corruption ideas... but the above would work as straight evil acts as well, I think!

Edited by Sir Kalthorine, 09 June 2005 - 05:34 AM.