18 replies to this topic

[Wiskas]

Their magical nature gives elementals great protection from attacks on the Prime Material plane. Elementals are not harmed by any nonmagical weapons or magical weapons of less than +2 bonus. Creatures with under four Hit Dice and without any magical abilities cannot harm an elemental either. (Magical abilities include such characteristics as breath weapons, poisons, paralysis, or even being immune to normal weapon attacks.) Orcs, for example, are powerless against a conjured elemental unless one happens to possess a weapon with +2 or better bonus to hit.

It's written here that elementals can be harmed only with +2 or better weapons on Prime Material plane. But what if characters with nonmagical weapons were attempting to harm an elemental on its home plane? Will they harm it or not?

[Andyr]

I would assume so - though I'd suspect most adventurers on the Material Planes would want +2 or better weapons anyhow.

[Stone Wolf]

Also bear in mind that magical weapons lose one plus for every plane they are removed from the plane on which they're made. A weapon on the Prime is likely forged there, so on an elemental plane it would lose +2, making that +2 a +0 weapon. If elementals required +2 on their home plane as well, you'd have to bring a +4 weapon from the prime, or another weapon forged elsewhere.

[oralpain]

You need a weapon that is effectivly +2 or higher for it to harm an (typical) elemental.

If your weapon was made on the prime, and you go to the elemental plane fo fire and fight a fire elemental, that weapon had better have been made a +4.

The only creatures that tend to need lower plues to hit on thier "native" plane are those who attack from the (border) ethereal. Ghosts and such can be hit with lower quality weapons than normal if you confront them on the ethereal plane as part of their protection comes formt he fact that they are totaly "there" when you attack them from the prime.

Edited by oralpain, 04 May 2005 - 06:42 PM.

[Deathsangel]

Also bear in mind that magical weapons lose one plus for every plane they are removed from the plane on which they're made.  A weapon on the Prime is likely forged there, so on an elemental plane it would lose +2, making that +2 a +0 weapon.  If elementals required +2 on their home plane as well, you'd have to bring a +4 weapon from the prime, or another weapon forged elsewhere.

This rule is gone in 3.5 edition I believe. You have a sword of the planes with different +'s on different planes, but that is not the same.

I also wonder why it looses +2, cause what do mean then by: "Also bear in mind that magical weapons lose one plus for every plane they are removed from the plane on which they're made".

What is one step then? The outer planes is one step? I mean the prime is connected to almost everything, thus isn't it just one step away of the fire plane?

[NiGHTMARE]

The prime isn't directly connected to the outer or inner planes, you have to travel there via the astral plane and ethereal plane respectively.

Incidentally, the elemental planes are inner rather than outer planes.

[oralpain]

INNER - ETHEREAL - PRIME - ASTRAL - OUTER

Inner and outer are 2 steps, astral and etheral are 1 (step from the prime that is).

Edited by oralpain, 05 May 2005 - 04:32 AM.

[Stone Wolf]

The reasoning behind that (iirc) is that magical items are tied to the magical energies of the plane they were enchanted on, so distance from that plane weakens them.

Then you get to priests and the Outer Planes. Priests lose one level in spellcasting ability for each plane between the home plane of their deity and the plane they're on, counted around the "circle" of outer planes. It's a funky multiverse.

[Deathsangel]

That is is weird, certainly if you travel to your deity's homeplane.

@nightmare I know the elemental planes are inner. I just wanted to ask what one step is, if the inner was two. I see however that the few mili-seconds you are on the astral plane when going through a portal is counted along.

@oralpain. Your order is incorrect I believe cause via the astral plane the outer and inner planes are connected thus being only two steps. The etheral plane is per plane different and then you also have the shadow plane. I don't think you can write it down that simple. But the multiverse has become less complex and more coherent (don't know if this is the right english word) to one another

[Stone Wolf]

I'm not sure what 3E has done with the shadow plane (I get annoyed and stop reading), but in 2E Oralpain has it right. The Inner Planes are connected to the Prime by the Ethereal, and the Outer Planes are connected to the Prime by the Astral. Despite the fact that both the Astral and Ethereal connect to the Prime at all points, they never connect with each other.

[Dalis'ilhea]

And then you get Sigil throwing a wrench into everthing, get a weapon made there and it will only lose +1 no matter where you go

[Deathsangel]

I'm not sure what 3E has done with the shadow plane (I get annoyed and stop reading), but in 2E Oralpain has it right.  The Inner Planes are connected to the Prime by the Ethereal, and the Outer Planes are connected to the Prime by the Astral.  Despite the fact that both the Astral and Ethereal  connect to the Prime at all points, they never connect with each other.

In 3.5e ethereal plain and astral plain remain unconnected. Each plan has his own ethereal plane. When using spells to planar travel one always uses the astral plane. Strangely enough there are also portals on the ethereal to everywhere, though only more scares then the astral plane. The shadow plane is alike the ethereal plane connected only to one plane. Unless you use the 'Deep Shadow' option.

Hope I said this all correct, as this is done by heart.

I can look at the exact descriptions if you wish and even find the exact terms for the 'connection' between the ethereal plane and astral, I believe it is coexistence. On the other hand, I do not think this discussion needs to become about 3.5 rules.

[oralpain]

And then you get Sigil throwing a wrench into everthing, get a weapon made there and it will only lose +1 no matter where you go

I though weapons made in sigil where effectivly made in the outlands. No loss of pluses on the outlands, -1 on all other outplanes, -1 on the astral, -2 on the prime, -3 on the etheral, -4 in the inner planes.

[Stone Wolf]

Yeah, weapons from the Outlands (including Sigil) are valued because they only lose +1 on all of the other Outer Planes, but they still lose more elsewhere. Most inhabitants of the Outer Planes don't spend much time elsewhere, so that's all they want.

Of course, a simple Native Item spell cast on the blade (or incorporated into the creation process) makes that all go away.

[Dalis'ilhea]

hmm, looks like I remember wrong then, I'll have to start reading the books again

[oralpain]

Of course, a simple Native Item spell cast on the blade (or incorporated into the creation process) makes that all go away.

Of course, having the usability of your weapons depenant upon a spell that must be constantly renewed is not always wise.

Edited by oralpain, 07 May 2005 - 08:08 PM.

[Stone Wolf]

It's better than not having the spell at all. Of course, armor and protection rings/neclaces/etc lose pluses too, and if you cast Native Item on more than one item you're carrying....it could be bad.

[Cat87]

It's better than not having the spell at all.   Of course, armor and protection rings/neclaces/etc lose pluses too, and if you cast Native Item on more than one item you're carrying....it could be bad.

How is that?

[Stone Wolf]

Iirc, there was a percentage chance that all items with that spell would get sucked back to their home world or something. Maybe damage to the wearer too...