38 replies to this topic

[Feanor]

I have one question : is Tarterus the same plane with Carceri ?

[Deathsangel]

I have one question : is Tarterus the same plane with Carceri ?

I am not sure but I believe Tartarus is a layer of the plane Carceri.

[Stone Wolf]

Tartarus is another name for Carceri (used in the Greyhawk world I think). The names of the layers are Othrys, Cathrys, Minethys, Colothys, Porphatys, and Agathys.

[oralpain]

Carcri was originally called Tarterus in AD&D 1E. They changed all the offcial names for the planes and many extra planar creatures when going to 2E.

Carceri is now the proper name, Tarterus is still commonly used however.

It;s just like calling Baatezu, "Devils". They are one and the same and are both correct in their own way, but Baatezu is more proper.

[Archmage Silver]

It;s just like calling Baatezu, "Devils". They are one and the same and are both correct in their own way, but Baatezu is more proper.

In other words, it's the official name.

[oralpain]

Well, yes, but both where used in official products, at least in 2E.

I'm not sure if they have changed the names again in 3/3.5E.

[Deathsangel]

Well, yes, but both where used in official products, at least in 2E.

I'm not sure if they have changed the names again in 3/3.5E.

Nope, at home with Manual of the Planes. Quote (more or less):

Tarterian Depths of Carceri. It is a plane of exile. It is the prison plane of the multiverse. It is where the overthrown plot their return. It is the home of Nerull. One of the very very few that lives here willingly

Stone Wolf was right about the names of the layers by the way.

And about the layout, which I find hard to grasp:

Carceri is called the sixfold realm because it has six layers nested within each other like little wooden dolls. On each layers, a strand of small planets stretches in two directions toward infinity.

Edited by Deathsangel, 28 April 2005 - 01:42 PM.

[Andyr]

The Planes do not have to make sense.

[Stone Wolf]

That's why I like the Outlands. Travel time between two places is rolled on dice, and your speed doesn't matter. At the center is an infinitely tall spire, with a city at the top. So it has a bottom and a top, the middle just goes on forever.

[oralpain]

Well, yes, but both where used in official products, at least in 2E.

I'm not sure if they have changed the names again in 3/3.5E.

Nope, at home with Manual of the Planes. Quote (more or less):

Tarterian Depths of Carceri. It is a plane of exile. It is the prison plane of the multiverse. It is where the overthrown plot their return. It is the home of Nerull. One of the very very few that lives here willingly

Stone Wolf was right about the names of the layers by the way.

And about the layout, which I find hard to grasp:

Carceri is called the sixfold realm because it has six layers nested within each other like little wooden dolls. On each layers, a strand of small planets stretches in two directions toward infinity.

Yes, I don't think they have ever changed the names of the layers.

A layer (on most planes) is infinite, pritty much a universe unto itself.

In Carceri each layer is a string of planets, the deeper you go the smaller and farther apart these planets get.

I find the AD&D 1st edition Manual of the planes gives the best technical decriptions/diagrams of how these things look.

That's why I like the Outlands.  Travel time between two places is rolled on dice, and your speed doesn't matter.  At the center is an infinitely tall spire, with a city at the top.  So it has a bottom and a top, the middle just goes on forever. 

Supposedly their is an insane god intent on climbing up the spire (wich does go on forever) and punching his way into Sigil (which is the city at the top).

Edited by oralpain, 28 April 2005 - 08:53 PM.

[Stone Wolf]

Supposedly their is an insane god intent on climbing up the spire (wich does go on forever) and punching his way into Sigil (which is the city at the top).

Hmm, that could be a good source of xp. I mean, at the spire the powers lose all their special abilities and are restricted to melee combat. A high level group should be able to take him down, though getting to him would be challenging.

[NiGHTMARE]

I'm not sure if they have changed the names again in 3/3.5E.

Just to be confusing, they simultaneously have changed and have not changed .

For the core 3E/3.5E D&D rulebooks (which use Greyhawk as the base), they are unchanged. However, for both the Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance, WotC have completely revamped the planes. Not only have some planes been renamed, many have been removed, some have been combined, a few new ones have been added.

Officially, none of the 3E settings are set in the same universe anymore. Unofficially, most DMs who want to involve multiple settings in their adventures just ignore the 3E plane revamps and use the core/2E planes (WotCdumped both Planescape and Spelljammer anyway).

EDIT: actually there is one change to the planes of the core settings, in that the Demiplane of Shadows has been upgraded to the Plane of Shadows.

Edited by NiGHTMARE, 02 May 2005 - 09:33 AM.

[Deathsangel]

I'm not sure if they have changed the names again in 3/3.5E.

Just to be confusing, they simultaneously have changed and have not changed .

For the core 3E/3.5E D&D rulebooks (which use Greyhawk as the base), they are unchanged. However, for both the Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance, WotC have completely revamped the planes. Not only have some planes been renamed, many have been removed, some have been combined, a few new ones have been added.

Officially, none of the 3E settings are set in the same universe anymore. Unofficially, most DMs who want to involve multiple settings in their adventures just ignore the 3E plane revamps and use the core/2E planes (WotCdumped both Planescape and Spelljammer anyway).

Not true. I have the Planescape Handbook 3.5 edition. Yes it exists once more...

[NiGHTMARE]

I never said Planescape 3rd Edition didn't exist, I said WotC dumped it. A different company owns and publishes Planescape accessories now, and it therefore isn't an "official" D&D 3E setting.

Edited by NiGHTMARE, 02 May 2005 - 07:22 AM.

[Andyr]

The stuff from Planewalker.com is a fan-made conversion, and while it is good it is not "official" as NiGHTMARE said.

[Efreet]

While we are on the planes. How does it all work with petitioners? I have been looking for stuff on them but found contradictory information.

1 How much do they keep from the time they were alive? some (like lemuri) are almost mindless but the do the vikings that go to Ysgard (and other petitioners who get to keep the form they had when alive) also forget all their mortal lives?

2 What happens to petitioners who die? Are they annihilated\ absorbed into the plane or are they reborn (Irenicus surely gets killed in the SoA outro but it seems improbable that his torment would end there and then)

[Andyr]

I think all petitioners lose their memories. Though deities can return them, and Resurrection and similar spells return the petitioner to its former life.

When they are destroyed they mostly merge with the Planes, yeah.

[Galactygon]

Does anyone have information about the archons, and other creatures native to the upper planes (except Devas and such)?

-Galactygon

[Echon]

Do you want information on creatures other than the aasimons? The first Planescape Monstrous Compendium covers a lot of creatures from the outer planes, including some of the upper planes.

-Echon

[NiGHTMARE]

Warriors of Heaven contains a large amount of info on them as well.

Edited by NiGHTMARE, 28 May 2005 - 03:53 AM.