51 replies to this topic

[Torn]

EDIT: Never mind

Edited by Torn, 11 April 2005 - 07:22 PM.

[Dellaster]

Mabnuln, I'd encourage you to take a look at the excellent tutorials on this site and others. You may find that the technical side of modding is not so beyond you afterall. There are wonderful people here, and on other boards, who will help with questions and advice as well.

Even if afterwards you still believe it's beyond your capabilites, you'll get an education on the limits and requirements of NPC modding. This will help you to write your dialogues in a way that makes it easy for the modder to code. If you came back and said you have X number of banter, interjection, and romance dialogue all written up I think you'd get some interest. If they like your writing.

As it is, I'd guess that those who have the skill and experience to code the mod already have a project (or many) going, with ideas of their own for future mods. I think you need to tempt such people with more than an idea.

Best of luck!


-- Dellaster

Edited by Dellaster, 11 April 2005 - 07:54 PM.

[kingkiller]

Excellent idea, (would never have thought of it myself), as a side note an (non- clone) Ellesime-ToB mod would not make real sense, because why would Ellesime leave Suldenessalar? Some suggestions,

1. Don't get restricted, especially in matters of class and personality, just because she is a clone does not mean she is Ellesime. She is the same, yet different. She has Ellesime's body and the POTENTIAL of Ellesime NOT the abilities. This also means she can be any class because of this.

2. I think a major theme of this mod could be this clone's MAJOR IDENTITY CRISIS. Imagine if you were a clone, what would you think? You would lose all idea of who you really are? What if you never had any idea which is probably the case of this clone.

This mod sounds interesting, if I ever improve in mod skills (I hope I do or my NPC mod will get nowhere), I'd be willing to help.

[Mabnuln]

Well, I am restricted in class due to the fact that she uses spells in the game... So must be either a sorcerer, a mage, or a bard. hmm... a bard... that could be interesting, and yet no. Elvish bards are not allowed in 2E, which I feel is stupid, but I will play by the rules. So, mage or sorcerer. As for personality, I am going to have a basic personality that (Charname) can shape- or such was my thought. I am going through Near infinity getting the area, etc. It will be a very, very long time- if ever- before ellie- or whatever I call her- comes to light, though.

[kingkiller]

Not really, you can break the rules with NPC's (points to Mazzy, Valygar, and Minsc).

[Mabnuln]

well, I am giving it a try. Writing the initial dialouge with the poor girl- which is similer to the origional (Contains it all), but both expanded and worked.
Good Idea about the ID crisis, Kingkiller.

[Andyr]

Not really, you can break the rules with NPC's (points to Mazzy, Valygar, and Minsc).

How do these break the rules?

[Mabnuln]

Just to show it has begun, bellow is the initial dialouge. Feel free- as it incoded- to correct me if I have made any coding mistakes. I know that the coding for attribute requirements is wrong- that is one of the things I must look up. (I have six dialouges written and nearly coded- The innitial and the first 5 "universal' dialouges (How you answer her in them puts her as one of three kinds of women- self centered seductress (NE), pleasure and fun seeking nymphomaniac (CN), and sweet, gentle maidon (NG)- all romancable. It will be a BIG mod) Comments? Please if you critisize do it constructively B)

Begin MbcasJ

IF ~NumTimesTalkedTo(0)~ FirstMeeting
Say ~Ah! Thou hast come once again to prey upon me, my 'master'!!~
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~I am not your master, Dear lady. Is there aught I can do for you?~ GOTO doforme
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Tell me who you are and what you are doing here!~ GOTO whoamI
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Yes, I am your master. Calm yourself woman!~ GOTO master
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Nothing shall prey on you save my blade!~ GOTO Blade
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN doforme
SAY ~Do for me? Do for me?! After all thou hast already done!~ GOTO Herimage
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN whoamI
SAY ~Thou Knowest who I am, foul one! Or dost thou now Mistake me for HER?! you created me, fool! And killed and created and killed and created! And now I shall put an end to thee!~
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Wait! I am not who you think I am!~ Goto notmaster
IF ~~ Then REPLY ~As you would have it~ Enemy()
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN master
SAY ~I shall not! You may have created me, but I am not a play-thing! I am not HER, no matter how thou dost wish it! Kill me a dozen times over, I am never her!~
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~And who is this woman I might wish you to be?~ GOTO herimage
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~No, you are not my play thing. I appologize for anything I may have done~ GOTO not plaything
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~And who might you be then?~ GOTO Herimage
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Created, eh? Very well, I shall have no remorse ending your existance then!~ GOTO blade
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN blade
SAY ~Aye, so be it! Danm my copied soul and danmed be thine as well! Kill me again, and again, and again!~
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~DIE~ GOTO enemy
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Wait, I do not want to kill you! Please, go on your way, we will not hinder thee~ GOTO sendaway
IF ~Cha 16+~ THEN REPLY ~Wait, my dear lady! We may be able to talk this out!~ GOTO cha blade
IF ~Cha 16+~ THEN REPLY ~Do you not fear death, my dear lady?~ GOTO feardeath
IF ~Int 16+~ THEN REPLY ~WAIT! If from what you say, you are indeed not this woman you wished me to beleive you to be, then I must submit that you are...~ GOTO Int blade
IF ~Wis 16+~ THEN REPLY ~Hmm. Wait, dear lady. I think you have mistaken me for another- I can see you are scared, can we talk about it?~ GO TO Wis blade
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN Herimage
SAY ~Thou hast created me in HER image, but I am not HER! I am not! And I shall ne'er let thee touch me again! No more death to rise again not her!~
IF ~wis 16+~ THEN REPLY ~No, you are not. Your master has tormented you long enough- and me as well.~ GOTO HI wis
IF ~int 16+~ THEN REPLY ~No, you are not. And your master has tormented me as well. Perhaps we should kill him for it- together.~ GOTO HI wis
IF ~cha 16+~ THEN REPLY ~No, you are not. Please, dear lady- do I seem to be the evil bastard your master obviously is? Come with me- and be free of his evil. No more clones- no more death.~ GO TO HI Cha
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Fine then. Die.~ GOTO Enemy
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~No, you are not. Please, though- do not make me kill you. Go on your way- escape this place~ GOTO Sendaway
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN Notmaster
SAY ~You are not my 'master'? Explain yourself, then. Who are you?~
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~I am <Charname>, a prisoner of your creater. I am now escaping his danmedable dungeon- and would invite you to join me, if you wish.~ GOTO Join
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~I am death come for thee~ GOTO Enemy
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~I am a prisoner of your master, dear lady. My name is <Charname>, from candlekeep. Would you like to join with me?~ GOTO Join
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~I am an escaped prisoner, like yourself. I will be on my way- and I advise you to be as well.~ GOTO sendaway
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN notplaything
SAY ~Ahhh! I see HER in every mirror! I hear HER with every breath! I would tear off mine own skin to be rid of HER! I am not HER! Kill me again and again and I am not her! But I will be rid of YOU!
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~I will leave you to it then~ GOTO Blade
IF ~cha 16+~ THEN REPLY ~But, my lady- tis so lovely an immage. Surely you would not wish to damage it? Join me, and let mine eyes gaze upon HER~ GOTO CHA notplaything
IF ~Wis 16+~ THEN REPLY ~My lady, if you have been killed time and again by your master- would he not kill you again?~ GOTO WIS notplayting
IF ~Int 16+~ THEN REPLY ~A clone of a elf, of noble blood I think. Tell me, dear lady, why do you hate your immage?~ GOTO INT notplayting
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN cha blade
SAY ~Talk this out? Talk this out! You have created me in HER immage! I am not HER! I will never be HER!!~
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~No, you are not her. You are yourself. Please, my lady- accept my appology, and join with us. We will seek out your former master, and kill him!~ GOTO Join
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~You are quite clearly mad. DIE!~ Enemy ()
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN feardeath
SAY ~Fear death? Fear death? You will simply make me again- and again, but I am not HER! Never will I be HER! Not HER!~
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Then let us talk this out, my dear lady. Surely we can come to some kind of agreement?~ GOTO cha blade
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Then, my blade will seek your heart. DIE!~ GOTO Enemy
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN Int Blade
SAY ~This is a new tactic. You are trying to talk me to death! But I am not her...NOT HER! Talk all you wish, I am simply not her!~
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~No, my lady, you are not her. I do not know her. Then, you are her clone- and come, dear girl. Join with me, and we will find your former master- and perhaps 'her'~ GOTO join
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~If that is not good enough... then you will have to fall by my spell and blade! DIE~ GOTO Enemy
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN HI wis
SAY ~He has tormented you? I can see in your eyes you are not him- and I am not Her.~ GOTO notmaster
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN HI cha
SAY ~You...you have not attacked me.~ GOTO notmaster
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN cha notplaything
SAY ~I wish that were true. But, how can you say it is? I am ugly, I have HER face- I am sick and tired of HER!~ GOTO notmaster
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN wis notplaything
SAY ~Then... then... I am not her! and...~ GOTO notmaster
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN Int notplaything
SAY ~You know who I am, foul one... or, are you...~ GOTO notmaster
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN Join
SAY ~Join you? I...well...why would you want me to join you?~
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Because I love the look of HER~ GOTO AAAAAH
IF ~wis 14+~ THEN REPLY ~Because I love the look of you~ GOTO Oh
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~You are a prisoner of my captor, and have as much reason to hate him as I have. Please, join me~ GOTO samecaptor
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~You know, perhaps...do not join me, but you may leave in peace. I wish you a good life.~ GOTO send away
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Never mind, clone. Prepare to die!~ GOTO Enemy
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN AAAAAH
SAY ~I am not her! Not her!!!~ GOTO Enemy
END

IF ~~THEN BEGIN oh
SAY ~I...You like me? I have never been liked. I..I am flattered.~
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Yes, I like you. Please, join me...but, what is your name?~ GOTO name
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Well, you are a powerful mage and all.~ GOTO mage
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Yes, but not enough to travel with you. I wish you well.~ GOTO sendaway
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN samecaptor
SAY ~Yes, well, I have screamed enough, and so have you. Those marks- the drueger made them, yes?~
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~They made them, but enough on that, Dear lady. Might I know your name?~ GOTO name
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Yes. I am surprised there is so little on you, though. I can tell you are a powerful mage.~ GOTO mage
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Enough I do not to be reminded of it. I am sorry, Dear lady- but I can not take you with me. Escape on your own.~ GOTO sendaway
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN name
SAY ~My name? I do not know. I truely do not know. I..I will call myself Cassandra. Yes. Cassandra.~
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Then, Please join with me, Cassandra, and we will be on our way.~ GOTO Join2
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~A nice name, a lovely name for a lovely lady.~ GOTO Blush
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~A fair name. I wish you well, Cassandra, but I changed my mind- there is no room for you in my party~ GOTO sendaway
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN mage
SAY ~Well, I am gifted with some raw power I have learned to shape. I am not really a mage. Oh, to introduce myself, er,...~ GOTO Name
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN Join2
~Cassandra nods, and say's "Thank you, my Hero."~ SetGlobal ("cassandrajoin",LOCALS, 1), JoinParty()~ EXIT
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN blush
SAY ~Cassandra blushes at your words~
REPLY ~ kiss her cheek and say "Let us go, dear lady"~ GOTO kiss
REPLY ~Shall we go?~ GOTO Join2
REPLY ~I am afraid we will not be able to go together, though, lovely lady. I wish you luck.~ GOTO sendaway
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN kiss
~Cassandra blushes a deeper red before returning a kiss to your cheek, and smiles at you, before stepping away, joy in her eyes.~ GOTO Join2
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN sendawy
SAY ~Thank you for letting me go- I had best run now before my master returns. Please, take this wand and its brothers to escape.~ EXIT
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN Enemy
sAY ~No, you will DIE! I will kill you! Not her...~ Enemy()
END

[Mabnuln]

Looking in other romance mods, I have nto found the answer to a question. How is it that I can set up the romance variables- namely, the timer, the romance active, etc? I know Do ~SetGlobal("globalname", "Local", 1), but in what file? And how do you do the timer perioud?

[Dellaster]

I'm not qualified to answer you in my own words, but I can refer you to this Romance Guide. The guide and your continued study of others' romances should get you pretty far along in your modding quest.

[Mabnuln]

The romance is a combination of:

D-file (dialogue file) that is appended to either PDIALOGUE.2DA (character interacts with PC or outside world) or INTERDIA.2DA (character interacts with the party memebers). Dialogies from PDIALOGUE.2DA is called by Dialogue()/StartDialogueNoSet(), from INTERDIA by Interact() command. Generally the Interdia file starts with extension B and the Pdialogue ends with J. Joining dialogue is usually a special case and is often simply 5 letters from NPC name.

BAF file (scripts) is used to drive all CRE's actions. It is usually appended to the CRE's override script.

Upon compilation D files become DLG and BAF's - BCS and the game then can use them.

You have quite a few errors in your D. A Road to Banter, Ghrey's How to Create... tutorials are great for learning structures. I also have a relatively detailed write-up on all sort of structures used in D files here:

http://forums.gibber...?showtopic=2822

The way the romance works is that BAF sets timers and sequence of talks and calls for them from D files. Simple actions can be done via D file using DO command.

For example the line:

IF ~~ Then REPLY ~As you would have it~ Enemy()

is incorrect in a few aspects:

It shouls be:

IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~As you would have it~ DO ~Enemy()~ EXIT

or, using shorthand:

++ ~As you would have it~ DO ~Enemy()~ EXIT

always remeber that PC's line has to either lead somewhere (EXTERN/GOTO) or EXIT

Thank you both. I said I am new to it- but trying to get it down, and doing so relatively fast. I guess I am a glutton for punishment- making the hardist kind of NPC off the bat, and a complex one at that. I do have one specific question:
Can a number in a global be negative? In this case, if you treat her like dirt early on she leans to evil (Remains TN, but is close to NE)- and continually racks up negatives (IncrumentGlobal("CassWV","GLOBAL", -1)). If it does that, or stay at 0, I am fine- but if it messes up the system I have to rework it.

As a side note- the line above was something I did not catch when making the last, 'enemy' line, and has been changed to GOTO Enemey. And if you are reffering to the statchecks, I have modified them to CheckStatGT(Player1, 15, CHR/WIS/INT (Depending on which stat it is) after looking at the Chloe romance- after I posted this. Also realize this is rough- I will go through it all, as will thebeta-testers when I finish it all (A few weeks, likely, at best) and at that time I will not only add to it, but rework my writing etc.

Edited by Mabnuln, 13 April 2005 - 08:13 AM.

[AnnabelleRose]

Good to see everyone getting along in this thread. Ashara is one of the better coders to help with you questions too, Mabnuln.

Makes me think if someone new to the community can start coding, maybe it is time for my lazy ass to sit down and read the tutorials and start releasing the mods I have been wanting to make.

**Edit** Forgot to comment on the initial part you asked for comments about, heh. I like that you are going with her unsure of her identity. I also like that the PC can have a hand in shaping who she becomes. If possible, perhaps her alignment should not be decided so early? Seems like it might take longer to shape it then the initial dialogue. Just a suggestion, it honestly depends on how "suggestable" you are planning to write her I guess.

Edited by MajorTomSawyer, 13 April 2005 - 10:05 AM.

[Mabnuln]

Oh no, her alignment takes the first five dialouges, as well as your actions during those five (Freeing/killing the slaves, Circus tent, responses in quests, etc- that will be part of what takes a while ) and her discussions with other NPC's during the time into account. In otherwords, both how you treat her and her view of how you act against or for the world, as well as how your companions treat her and the world. The primary influance is Charname, however... . Thus, if you want her to be evil, act like a jerk to her and others.... and take Edwin, korgan, etc with you.

[SConrad]

Alright, if we're getting picky, I can see a few other mistakes as well.

Begin MbcasJ

WeiDU is case sensitive, which means that Begin isn't the same as BeGiN or bEgIn. BEGIN is the correct action.

Say ~Ah! Thou hast come once again to prey upon me, my 'master'!!~

Same here, SAY is correct.

SAY ~Do for me? Do for me?! After all thou hast already done!~ GOTO Herimage

You need an IF ~~ GOTO instead of just GOTO when you don't have any transitions.

IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Wait! I am not who you think I am!~ Goto notmaster
IF ~~ Then REPLY ~As you would have it~ Enemy()

GOTO and THEN.

And yes, what Ashara said.

IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~No, you are not my play thing. I appologize for anything I may have done~ GOTO not plaything

WeiDU won't take more than one word as a transition. Use not_plaything instead.

IF ~Cha 16+~ THEN REPLY ~Wait, my dear lady! We may be able to talk this out!~ GOTO cha blade

Same here with the two-word transition. Also note that it's ~CheckStatGT(Player1,15,CHR)~ if you want the charisma to be 16 or more. STR, DEX, CON, INT or WIS for the other stats.

IF ~Wis 16+~ THEN REPLY ~Hmm. Wait, dear lady. I think you have mistaken me for another- I can see you are scared, can we talk about it?~ GO TO Wis blade

Two-word transition, wrong trigger (as previous example) and GO TO instead of GOTO.

SAY ~Ahhh! I see HER in every mirror! I hear HER with every breath! I would tear off mine own skin to be rid of HER! I am not HER! Kill me again and again and I am not her! But I will be rid of YOU!

You missed a tilde (~) at the end.

~Cassandra nods, and say's "Thank you, my Hero."~ SetGlobal ("cassandrajoin",LOCALS, 1), JoinParty()~ EXIT

I'd code this as:

SAY ~Cassandra nods, and say's "Thank you, my Hero."~ IF ~~ DO ~SetGlobal("cassandrajoin","LOCALS", 1) JoinParty()~ EXIT

REPLY ~ kiss her cheek and say "Let us go, dear lady"~ GOTO kiss
REPLY ~Shall we go?~ GOTO Join2
REPLY ~I am afraid we will not be able to go together, though, lovely lady. I wish you luck.~ GOTO sendaway

You need IF ~~ THEN REPLY, if you don't want to use ++.

~Cassandra blushes a deeper red before returning a kiss to your cheek, and smiles at you, before stepping away, joy in her eyes.~ GOTO Join2

You also need the SAY.

sAY ~No, you will DIE! I will kill you! Not her...~ Enemy()

SAY, and then IF ~~ DO ~Enemy()~ EXIT at the end, since you don't have any transitions.

Alright, this is what I spotted during a brief glance of it. I might've missed something. Otherwise, it's very good for being first time coding! :thumb:

[Mabnuln]

Thank you, S-conrad. I am doing my best- but given the length will take some time to debug even after I am done . I am working hard on it- and have implemented your corrections.

Also, I have written (For the player character only!) the 5 "Universal" talks (the shaping talks, as I call them), the three Generic/friendship talks for cassie as a good character-which will fire BEFORE the love talks, 1 good love talk , and the majority of the second. There will be 5 or 6 love talks for now for each of her three alignments, which is short- but given 8 talks before it, not terribly so. If I can think of more for her to talk about after these planned, I will defanitely add to it. All currently in the order of 15-20 blocks long- a moderate size, I figure.

Just a friendly neigberhood status report for anybody who cares

[AnnabelleRose]

Wow, hard to belive this is your first attempt. I look forward to the completed project.

[Mabnuln]

Wow, hard to belive this is your first attempt. I look forward to the completed project.

I didn't say I had a life ever, now did I
No, Seriously I have worked on her much of the day, and alot of yesterday- I had little else to do. Was to wet to do much outside here, and I am unemployed.

PS working on LT 3 now- soon I get to have her proclaim her undying affection to <charname>

And, now, onto, as Reialis Shai say's, one final....odd...request. I will not need it in some time, but is anybody willing to make a Ellisime like picture for her? Even though I can code it (With perhaps a little too much help from you guys- your great!), I know and I KNOW I can not do art! Also, I am a guy- so If I want her voice acted, which would be good, I could use an voice actress. She will speak in Thee's and thou's- just to keep that bit true to the game. And I would not need her voiced until, frankly, she is scripted and written- but just a for the future, on both.

Edited by Mabnuln, 13 April 2005 - 07:10 PM.

[Mabnuln]

Another status report, if for no other reason than I am an egomaniac who enjoys what small praise I get . The good path is done (Rough draft wise, that is- Will be revised when it has had a few day's on the back burner- and I am sure is very buggy!). The first path was 3 general and 6 romance dialouges. Now I am working on the first general dialouge for the fun loving (CN) path.
My question is anybody willing to host a forum for me (Though likely not here) ? Or should I make one at Yahell? I have gotten plenty of help, and no doubt taken too much of your time- again, thank you! you have helped alot! at least S-conrad and Ashara will be given mention in the readme- when I finish it all!