20 replies to this topic

[Sir Kalthorine]

OK, jokey title but a serious question - I know how I would like to see Chrysta develop, but I also want her to be popular with BG fans, so I am interested to hear what people thinks makes a "good" NPC mod. Ideally this would be better as a "put these in order of preference" rather than "choose one", but one has to play within the constraints one has to suffer

I have deliberately steered away from poll choices of "a balanced mix of the above" (since clearly a lot of people would want EVERYTHING they could from the mod) or "a romanceable NPC", since that choice is already made (Chrysta WILL be romanceable). I have also deliberately given each poll choice a down side... coz I'm an evil git.

I guess what I am after is some indication of how I should concentrate the efforts of me and the rest of my modding team. I have a tendency of always being overly ambitious and trying to do everything to please everybody - so it would be nice to know what to focus on!

If I have missed anything off the list, or indeed if anyone has any other comments about what they want to see from the Chrysta mod, then please post away...

Edited by Sir Kalthorine, 19 March 2005 - 10:20 AM.

[Erephine]

Definately #3.

[Meira]

I'll take a bit of 2, 3, 4 and 5 (with ballance between 3 and 4), thank you. (voted #2)

[Hendryk]

You left off "a good story" probably since that might include elements from so many other of your options. That still gets my vote though, no matter what you have to include, or omit, to tell it properly.

[Sir Kalthorine]

You left off "a good story" probably since that might include elements from so many other of your options.  That still gets my vote though, no matter what you have to include, or omit, to tell it properly.

Good point... I hope that one goes without saying, though :thumb:

[Aion]

Voted for #3.

[SimDing0]

...offering something unique, different and/or fresh to the game, even at the expense of game balance

Individuality should be in character, not items.

...believability in the game setting, possibly at the expense of NPC power/usefulness or humour

Fitting into the game is hands-down the most important thing for a mod. If there's anything at all that gives away that it's a mod rather than official material, then it's letting it down.

...lots of quality dialogue with the PC and NPCs, even if that means not much "action"

The two are hardly mutually exclusive given the banter engine, unless you mean "do you want the mod to include quality dialogue or six Eclipse battles?" in which case I'll just say "don't make Chrysta rubbish please."

...extensive extra quests and items, even if this means a game which seems to concentrate on the new NPC too much

All too many authors try to make their NPC the centre of the world. It's not good. Extensive quests are good, but don't plaster your NPC with them to the extent that it's obvious she's something different to the Bioware NPCs.

...compatibility with most existing mod conversions and other NPCs, even if compatibility checks mean the mod isn't as extensive as it could have been

If she is incompatible with Alassa, I will shed no tears. (I will also shed no tears if she's incompatible with stuff like TDD, but the joke's less funny that way.)

...quests and interactions that are intelligent and challenging and make you think, even if it can be frustrating when challenges prove too difficult

No Improved Battles, please. Difficulty is a feature of overall game consistency.

Edited by SimDing0, 20 March 2005 - 02:25 AM.

[Sir Kalthorine]

various intelligent observations 

Rest assured that we certainly seem to be of one mind when it comes to your first few points, SimDing0 :thumb:

...compatibility with most existing mod conversions and other NPCs, even if compatibility checks mean the mod isn't as extensive as it could have been

If she is incompatible with Alassa, I will shed no tears. (I will also shed no tears if she's incompatible with stuff like TDD, but the joke's less funny that way.)

I will (at the very least) ensure that Chrysta is compatible with the "big" mods like TDD, TS, SoS etc... I will also try and keep the coding sufficiently self-contained and unobtrusive as to avoid as many clashes with other NPCs as possible, but can't make any promises on that score.

...quests and interactions that are intelligent and challenging and make you think, even if it can be frustrating when challenges prove too difficult

No Improved Battles, please. Difficulty is a feature of overall game consistency.

Again, we seem to be of the same mind on that score... none of Chrysta's elements will attempt to tweak the difficulty of existing encounters/battles, and encounters that are part of Chrysta's subquests will not stand out as being deadly or difficult combat-wise. What I had in mind when I referred to "challenging" quests was more of the intellectually challenging type - in-game puzzles and mysteries, that kind of thing (but all in context - no MENSA puzzle tests inexplicably popping up in the middle of a dungeon, for example!).

[Archmage Silver]

Number three it must be.

[hlidskialf]

I voted #2. To me it's great to see a new NPC that adds to the party from it's unique personality, but doesn't become the center of the action. That's what the whole Bhaal saga is about! Banters and such should be developed on the level of the regular game NPCs, but seeing as there are things like banterpacks/flirtpacks and the know-how to make them, you might as well develop the character to this level as well. (It makes more sense to me than offerring your NPC and a separate banterpack.)
As far as compatiblity goes, if it's written to the level of current weidu standards, there's no reason it can't be compatible with virtually every mod out there. (Minus any obvious plot conflicts.) Of course there must be an exception to every rule, so you must of course make allowances for Imoen2 DV cre files in Jonny's basement like in the Immy Romance...

[Sir Kalthorine]

I voted #2. To me it's great to see a new NPC that adds to the party from it's unique personality, but doesn't become the center of the action. That's what the whole Bhaal saga is about!

Check my comments elsewhere and you will see that I am a big fan of that approach. I want Chrysta to be distinctive, but not all-powerful and game-dominating.

Banters and such should be developed on the level of the regular game NPCs, but seeing as there are things like banterpacks/flirtpacks and the know-how to make them, you might as well develop the character to this level as well. (It makes more sense to me than offerring your NPC and a separate banterpack.)

Yup and yup! :thumb:

As far as compatiblity goes, if it's written to the level of current weidu standards, there's no reason it can't be compatible with virtually every mod out there. (Minus any obvious plot conflicts.) Of course there must be an exception to every rule, so you must of course make allowances for Imoen2 DV cre files in Jonny's basement like in the Immy Romance... 

Which is why I see my WeiDU knowledge as being a major hurdle to overcome here - WeiDU was still in its infancy when I was last around and I had only just begun to dabble with it, so I am not entirely sure what can be done. I know I am still waaaaaaay off having to worry about installation issues, but it still causes my more than a little concern - for example, I am currently involved in a very interesting discussion on the help forums about how to implement certain aspects of Chrysta's character class/kit, and knowing what Chrysta can or cannot do is going to have a knock-on effect on how I see her abilities progressing during the game. Still, I can be a tenacious bugger... I think attempting to pick up on an NPC that I had to abandon over two years ago due to forces outside my control is an adequate demonstration of that fact!

Edited by Sir Kalthorine, 21 March 2005 - 08:24 AM.

[Togashi Renshi]

Uniqueness. I'm getting a bit tired of all these mods that aim to be as if they were always there. Let's see a little variety! :thumb:

[Slumlord]

#1. Unique and standing out from the rest as an individual through character. Lots of dialog is nice but there is such a thing as too much.

[Sir Kalthorine]

  Lots of dialog is nice but there is such a thing as too much.

I agree, if you have quantity then you have to ensure quality as well.

If a plot is sufficiently immersive and believable, and the personality of an NPC sufficiently well-defined and consistent, then you can surely get away with a lot more good quality dialogue.

If, on the other hand, a plotline and NPC are bland and uninteresting, then I can imagine players cringing every time the dialogue box appears

All food for thought for someone writing their first NPC mod... <shudder>

[Feanor]

I would vote 2 and 3.

[Lord Ernie]

Hey there, Sir K. I was bored, so I decided to have a look at what you're cooking up here.

As for this poll, there's no simple answer. Simding0 has made a few very good points, and so have the others. I'll simply state my opinion.

What is important? Plenty of stuff that's added, of course (point 3). I prefer dialogue over action (combat action, that is) most of the time. Dialogue deepens out the NPC (or at least it should), and provides player choices (again, ...). Especially in a mod such as this one, where you can have a major influence on the NPC's personality, dialogue is very important.

Too much dialogue is a danger, cause as mentioned it can make it seem that the game resolves around the NPC. Then again, anyone who has ever played a game romancing an NPC knows that they tend to have (and should) considerably more dialogue than everybody else.

[arconian]

NPC compatability with Dungeon Be Gone ,

No but seriously I voted for number three, like Lord Ernie I far prefer dialogue over 'action'. If the dialogue is well written it's a whole load of action al by itself.

By the by Sir Kalthorine this mod got my hopes up ...finally a NPC who you can bend and shape to your own will .

--Arcon

[Sir Kalthorine]

NPC compatability with Dungeon Be Gone  ,

Goes without saying, really

By the by Sir Kalthorine this mod got my hopes up  ...finally a NPC who you can bend and shape to your own will  .

We will try not to disappoint... although if you are expecting a completely pliable and subservient NPC then you will be waiting in vain. She will, however, hopefully be an excellent example of "reaping what you sow" in terms of consequences of how you advise/guide her

[arconian]

We will try not to disappoint... although if you are expecting a completely pliable and subservient NPC then you will be waiting in vain.  She will, however, hopefully be an excellent example of "reaping what you sow" in terms of consequences of how you advise/guide her 

That's good enough for me, :thumb: . I wasn't exactly referring to bending and shaping wills per se. I was meaning...I forgot... . Well anyway on to the waiting game *twiddles thumbs*

--Arcon

[T.G.Maestro]

My vote goes for #2, but 5 is also important for me.