130 replies to this topic

[Hendryk]

You don't seem to be suffering from any shortage of good - excuse me, of Evil - ideas here. Perhaps a non-spoilerish indication from you about what you intend doing first, now that you're busy in the protected forum and all, would stimulate more input.

[Torn]

I guess I can do that... heh. Alright. So far, we have work planned in the following areas:

New evil dialogue, throughout the game, as needed
Changes/modifications to the existing quests in the game, to provide more equal opportunities for evil PCs
New evil quests
New evil NPCs

As far as major components, so far, we have planned to include:
The Copper Coronet Stronghold - this will include elements of slaving, black lotus dealing, and working with the Zhentarium
Working with the Drow in the Underdark, possibly
Joining the Cowled Wizards, possibly
Working with the Fallen Paladins, possibly (a few other mods include FP content, so it's not a frontrunner)
Working with the Cult of the Eyeless
Working with Faldorn in some way
The Bleak Academy (a new area/quest)
Different people in Irenicus' Dungeon if you are evil

Hopefully that's less ambiguous . What do you all think? Is there anything you would want to see added to this list (and why)? Anything you would want to remove (and why)? Any sweet killer ideas of doom you'd like to propose? We're all ears .

Edited by Deathsangel, 03 April 2005 - 04:21 AM.

[Torn]

Here's an idea. Who would be interested in a component that would allow the PC to corrupt an NPC in the party? Redemptions are occuring all over the place, why not a corruption?

The NPC would have to be someone fairly untouched by mods, and preferably non-romance; that would get tricky, and we'd have to change or add an awful lot of dialogue (as well as work with or around the NPC flirt packs). There are a few NPCs that this could work with:

-Cernd. This would work especially well if we go with the idea of working with Faldorn; slowly corrupting Cernd into becoming a Shadow Druid would be difficult, but certainly possible. It would also bring a tad more colour to quite an, um, potential forgettable character .
-Haer'Dalis. He's got quite an unstable emotional state to start off with... I'm sure that it wouldn't take too much prodding before his cries for 'Oblivion!' changed to 'Oblivion (but let's hack you into little pieces 'cos it's fun first)!'. And it's not as though there's a deluge of evil bards out there or anything

I would also dearly enjoy to do a corruption for Aerie and Jaheira (neither Viconia nor Anomen really need one ), but, as I said above, the sheer amount of work and potential dodginess of it is a little offputting.

Well, what do y'all think? Is this a concept you would be interested in seeing in a mod?

[Deathsangel]

My dear Torn. You do always forget a bit about Kido don't you.

Corruption of a NPC is already in there, though I give in it is not mainly due to the PC, but due to Kido. Though the PC has one last final say in this, if it happens or not.

Perhaps I should add that this might give some strange dialogues, if you have the D'Arnise Romance installed, but since the PC can save her (from being corrupted I mean) I don't expect to much trouble.

Come on, no one else has any ideas?  I'm sure there's some other people out here who need a bit of evil in their lives

About this... I am NG in live, according to the alignment tests, for all people think I am really bad. I just want to be able to play bad and actually also more neutral like, due to the more evil options as well. This mod is NPC and RP mod. But I do agree with Torn. No other ideas?

Edited by Deathsangel, 01 April 2005 - 02:00 AM.

[Surtr]

How's about to make some sort of contract with Demogorgon? Say, you give him some innocent souls and he gives you some new abilities/powers? Fiends loves innocent souls...

Or create a necromantic book, that has the ability to changes NPC's into mindless undead that follows the command of the PC?

Here's something more global: Change the poison for the spring in the druid-stronghold into an plague/diseases, that kills everything expect the ones that have the antidote(sp?). That way the druids are slain, and possible also those in the villiage.

For Stormlords: The church of Talos could gives you more quest after destroying Lathanders cult. For example, command you to kill also Helms follower and slaugher everyone in the Paladin-Stronghold.

Edited by Surtr, 01 April 2005 - 05:37 AM.

[Torn]

Surtr,

Making a deal with Demogorgon would be interesting, especially when you have those ready-made sacrifice victims waiting at the top of the keep. That's an idea to hold onto.

Here's another one:
Remember the statue of Demogorgon in the Underdark? You know the one; when you summon a creature underneath it, it is killed and a bunch of demon knights are summoned. This has all kinds of dark ritual potential. The party could sacrifice a large creature (Adalon, mayhaps ) and gain the favour of the Demon Knights, or something like that.

[Hendryk]

You're missing a lot of the fun of dealing with Demo if you forget that he's been Evil much longer than the PC. However much he might appreciate being released from WK (probably not much) or enjoy the Helmite snack, he is also going to be keeping an eye on the PC. He's got four, so he can afford it.

Now once you are gearing up for the final battle with Melissan, old Demo should pay a social call. He has been watching and by now is aware of just how much free power there is in that fountain. He'd like more than a sip of that juice himself, though he might try to fool you by pretending that he has come to "help" against Amelyssan. However that works out, he wouldn't truly care what you, or Melissan or the solar or even Ao, himself, might think. Demo would want to increase his own power, conquer a neighboring layer of the Abyss or two, gain more power from that, conquer more of the Abyss, eventually win the the Blood War, take over the Hells and...Well, you get the idea. An utterly rapacious demonlord does not play nice. And that is exactly the sort of consequence that should befall an Evil PC who is also stupid and trusting.

[Surtr]

I have the idea of the contract with Demogorgon from the Book of Vile Darkness source book. In this book, there are prestige classes that allows the player, to become an ally/slave/choosen of one demonlord/arch-devil.

In Demogorgon's case, you must sacrifice 1 or more intellegent beings for Demogorgons glory on a unhallow ground, at night, in the presence of one Tana'ri. If the PC exactly follows this vile ritual, then you become a Thrall of Demogorgon (and you will hunted down by the followers of Orcus, Graz'zt and visa versa...) and with that, the favour of Demogorgon.
So its techically doable to become an ally with one demonlord, go to its home plane in the Abyss and you are still alive.... but that doesn't mean that the neigtbourhood is also friendly to you.

Edited by Surtr, 03 April 2005 - 01:55 AM.

[Torn]

Hendryk,

That's a very interesting angle, and one that I hadn't considered. So, in practical terms, you're saying that the PC gains the aid of Demogorgon at the final battle (surely quite a big help there) in exchange for giving him some of the Bhaal essence?

I like that.

How about this, as a way of expanding it:

At the Throne of Bhaal, once Amelyssan has been defeated (or before the battle starts, whenever works), Demogorgon turns to you and demands your payment for his aid in the battle. Your PC and Demogorgon proceed to negotiate exactly how much is being given up vs how much you are receiving, with the following possible outcomes (ranked in order of sweetness, lowest to highest):

-Demogorgon goes mad and attacks
-Demogorgon takes some of the Bhaal essence and leaves without attacking
-Demogorgon takes some Bhaal essence and aids you in the battle
-Demogorgon takes some Bhaal essence, aids you in the battle, and becomes your most powerful and faithful ally of doom once you ascend to becoming the God of Murder.
-Demogorgon realises the futility of even existing when someone who kicks as much ass as you do is around, so he surrenders his essence into an Ioun stone that gives you all of Demogorgon's powers, as well as a massive HP and THAC0 bonus.

...just kidding about the last one.

Admittedly, I don't know much about Demogorgon, and perhaps another option is needed in between options 3 and 4, but I think it'd be worth considering.

[Hendryk]

I think that while Demogorgan might offer to "help" against Melissan first, he'd probably want all the power there for himself and wouldn't take No for an answer. In fact, he'd probably bring enough help along that he wouldn't even take Yes for an answer; just kill everyone and help himself.

Of course, one of Demo's senior assistant demons (who had gotten used to acting independently while Demo was a captive in WK and is *not* pleased that his old boss is back) could double-cross him and jump into the fountain first, so the PC, Demo and Mel could all have a nice chat over what to do about *that* resource hog. Then you could have bargaining with the added fun of Melissan bidding against you.

[Torn]

Absolutely he'd want it all, but the PC should be able to defeat him by this point. If the party can prove itself to be stronger than Demogorgon, on this plane, wouldn't he just opt for taking whatever he can get?

A thought, though; wouldn't the Solar be pissed off that Demogorgon is getting some of the Bhaal taint? Would that affect what happened? The Solar does seem to have, you know, a fair amount of control over these things.

[Hendryk]

I dunno. I have a hard time believing that Demo would regard both Mel and the PC as anything but overweening mortals who are, at the Throne, at a level of power that is way over their heads. If you wanted Demo to give the PC a pass there, you could take the angle that the PC's innate Bhaal essence is magnified by its affinity to the Throne so that Demo has to take cognizance of it. It would need a very delicate touch though to have the PC so powerful that Demogorgan is forced to show some grudging respect and yet still make it plausible that the PC is willing to bargain away some of power to get Demo's help. Demogorgan should, I think, regard any sign of willingness to negotiate as a sign of weakness or folly. Of course, it might be a trap, too. Let Demo link himself to the Throne and then use either Mel's or the PC's power over the Throne to drain *him*. If you made him sufficiently arrogant and condescending beforehand, that'd be a nice payback for him.

As for the Solar, she knows a lot and she delivers the final decision of "the gods" to end the battle but I don't know how powerful she'd be at the Throne all by herself. Probably she'd invent some 'duty' that required her to run away and 'inform' someone that things were getting out of hand at the Throne. If she stuck around, she'd almost certainly be destroyed.

[Torn]

Yeah... that's true. Well, I would like to add something with Demogorgon, but perhaps that wouldn't be the best idea.

Ah well. I'll think on it. If you have any more ideas, please, please share

[Hendryk]

Oh, Demogorgan could still show up here. Announce that he's there because "Although mortals would have it otherwise, I pay my debts." Then he'd help do Amellyssan. Then reveal to the PC that another debt which Demo feels he owes is one of hatred. Hatred towards the PC for finding him in that shameful prison. He would blot out that memory - and the PC in the process. The PC could then try to bargain, claiming that his/her affinity for the Throne is the only means left for Demo to partake of some of it. Demo says "Ha! You love your wretched mortal existence so much that you would barter the power of a god for it? Very well. I accept." Solar then shows up, says "Now boys! It is NOT supposed to go this way." PC & Demo kill solar. Demo proceeds to drain throne dry (whatever the agreement was.) Demo, now twice as tough as before, says "Fool as well as coward. Not even the fount of a god cancels a debt of hatred for a lord of demons!" Demo proceeds to pulverize the party. End game. Player reloads, chooses banter option #2 and fights Demo (plus allies) for the throne.

Edited by Hendryk, 13 April 2005 - 04:31 PM.

[Sir Kalthorine]

A way to work with the Shade Lord could be to offer a stronger body to replace his old, with the promise of a great reward.
I think this could be an amusing quest.
Then when you return with a stronger body, the Shade Lord could turn agenst you in a stronger form.
I have alwayes thougt that the Shade Lord was to easy to beat.

Even better, how about the PC forcing the Shade Lord to merge with him? This would give you some stat boosts and extra powers (e.g. innate powers of Summon Shadow, Invisibility, Strength Drain at higher levels, etc.), but suffer some minor penalties (e.g. THACO and AC penalties of +/-1) in daylight. Also, there would be a minor chance (say, 5% per combat) of the Shade Lord regaining control during combat (effectively causing the PC to briefly go "berserk" as per Minsc's uncontrollable berserk rage in BG1). It would also give the opportunity for some interesting "inner monologues" between the PC and the spirit of the Shade Lord, the responses to which can shift the balance between the PC being in control (more powers) or the Shade Lord (increased chance of losing control).

[Strontium Dog]

Come on, no one else has any ideas?  I'm sure there's some other people out here who need a bit of evil in their lives

Thank God! A mod that allows BG2 to be properly roleplayed. I always thought it was ridiculous that you are the child of an evil God and yet forced to do 100s of good quests. Becoming a god is surely more an evil ambition than a good one.

Here are my suggestions(some have already been mentioned before, no doubt):-

1:- Become a fanatical eco-terrorist and side with a neutral evil druid Faldorn(as a member of the party) against the Town of Trademeet (and against some extra hired mercenaries/adventuring bands hired by Trademeet). I think there's a mod somewhere that allows druids to have NG/N?NE/LN and CN alignments.

2:- Investigate "The Hidden" Plot on behalf of an evil cult (Talos?). Uncover a summoning ritual similiar to the Nabassu summoned in Tales of the Sword Coast expansion, and encounter and kill dread Cthulhu(I seem to recall that Cthulhu of the Lovecraft mythos looks identical to a huge Mind-flayer). The Cthulhu summoning ritual could instead be used for the Illithid part of Watchers' Keep level 4 - given the Spelljammer reference it might be more appropriate there.

3:- Destroy Fierkraag's minions, then side with Firekraag against Windspear and an army of comrades/paladins/aasimar from the Order of the Radiant Heart. Then betray Fierkraag and kill him.

4:- Side with the Skin Dancers against Brega and the City Guard. Help a skin-dancer gain Brega's form by stealing Brega's skin. Perthaps even become a skin-dancer(?)

5:- Side with the Cult of the Unseeing Eye (after killing its minions, and retrieving Amaunator's artifact(which won't work on the beholder, forcing you to ally with the monster)), then destroy the opposing Good Temples and their followers.

6:- Help Xzar outwit the Harpers and get Montaron back before annihilating the Harper Stronghold and all its agents.(I think that's been covered elsewhere).

7:- Kill most of the slaver lieutenants, then force the slaver leader to work for you to accumulate more slaves. Kill Hendak and city guard etc.

8:- Give same XP reward , as for good options, for all equivalent evil options already in the game (eg:- Bodhi's missions/ the Slavers etc.)


9:- Betray and kill Nalia and army of supporters/rescuers in nearby castle, kill your rival Lord Roenall, and take Castle De-'Arnise for yourself entirely and rule as a tyrant.

10:- Try to find and kill a child-killer(ie Neb) in the Bridge district on behalf of the criminal fraternity before the city guard destroys the Black Lotus criminal gangs in its attempt to find the killer. (This plot is more or less the same as Fritz Lang's movie "M").

11:- Destroy the Shade Lord without destroying the altar and acquire 1 or 2 new shade powers(illusions etc.), becoming a new Shade Lord.

12:- Side with the Twisted Rune against the Harpers/Order of the Radiant Heart/Aasimar servants/Baelnorn etc.

13:- Side with Anarg of the Fallen Paladins against the Order of the Radiant Heart.

14:- Help Saradush to fall on behalf of Yaga-Shura/Khiser Jhaeri(?) before stabbing him in the back.

15:- A Bodhi Romance. Seduce Bodhi in Chapter 2 and 3 before she betrays you. Kill her in Chapter 6 and return her semi-repentant self to (mortal) life afterwards with the help of the Temple in the Dock district, and a portion of your essence -she then becomes a member of your party. I always thought that she was more interesting romance material than Jaheira/Aerie and even Viconia. it would also be amusing to see her fight against her own brother in Chapter 7.

16:- Kill the elves of Suldanessellar as well as Irenicus' army.

17:- Balthasar realises you are a greater threat than Amelyssan/Melissan and sides with her temporarily at the final battle, in order to destroy you - instead of fighting you in Amkethran.

[Strontium Dog]

Re:- The Bodhi Romance. I forgot that the plot of the story means that the player doesn't have the essence necessary to revive Bodhi as Irenicus has stolen it. The PC would instead, after killing the aggressive Bodhi, have to sacrifice Imoen and somehow donate her "Bhaalspawn essence" to Bodhi. Or maybe Bodhi could be spared at the last moment as a vampire - she would then fight (Improved) Irenicus, and get restored to mortal form a la Sarevok by the PC, when the PC gets his essence back after killing Irenicus in chapter 7.

[Torn]

That's a really good idea. It kinda ties into the idea of using Imoen's essence to make Valen more powerful, only this way, it can be used on a non-Valen BGII install as well.

Good stuff dude, keep em coming . And if you see anything in the thread that you're interested in, comments are always more than welcome.

[Kulyok]

Something must be done with Imoen's essence, that's for sure. Sacrificing it to Bodhi, stealing it for yourself, for anyone else, or just destroying a rival. I've always wondered why, upon re-uniting with Imoen in Spellhold, PC couldn't tell her as much as "It was all your fault!"(which, incidentally, it was), let alone anything else evil.

A good idea could be to make a nice sacrificing ritual in the former Bhaal's Temple in TOB. Nyalee, Yaga-Shura's former guardian, certainly knows a lot about such things. BTW, an easy quest, too: PC grabs Imoen from Pocket Plane, sacrifices her, and has Nyalee's support.
(And before the ritual, PC may nicely explain Imoen that it is for her own good, and he'll purify her of the essence.)