29 replies to this topic

[igi]

Lo folks,
I just wondered if people are working on anything new/interesting, and weather people think there is any innovation in the community?

NB. An idea for an NPC who has 19 hands and a slightly greener than normal skin doesnt count as innovation.
NB. A sword which does 1d6 per number of the casters uncles over the age of 47, to bring it in line with P&P doesnt count as innovation.
NB. Bug fixing doesnt count as innovation.

[SConrad]

I'm always working on something interesting. Khadion, TPT and DLTC springs to mind, although not much work is being done on the last one of those at the moment.

[Andyr]

Lo folks,
I just wondered if people are working on anything new/interesting, and weather people think there is any innovation in the community?

NB. An idea for an NPC who has 19 hands and a slightly greener than normal skin doesnt count as innovation.
NB. A sword which does 1d6 per number of the casters uncles over the age of 47, to bring it in line with P&P doesnt count as innovation.
NB. Bug fixing doesnt count as innovation.

I am discovering new and unusual ways to crash the game.

[hlidskialf]

I've got a few things done I'd consider "Innovative" Igi, I've mentioned some to you as well. I'm going to be installing my laptop's new motherboard tomorrow, so maybe I'll have something cool to show ya' soon.

[igi]

SConrad: Unless there's something I'm missing, there's nothing particularly innovative about TPT or Khadion. DLTC is innovative, but as you know recent progress has been a little... slow.

Anydr: Yeah, it's pretty amazing the number of ways the engine can fall over.

Hlid: Yeah, I know you have one or two slightly innovative ideas :-D Hurry up and release them!

Guest: PS ...? Photoshop? Paint-shop? Paul Smith? Still, sounds useful.

[NiGHTMARE]

IMHO Cleric Remix's idea of giving different cleric kits access to different sets of spells was pretty innovative at the time .

I also have a few plans for LoI which I hope to be reasonably innovative, such as creating an alternate temple donation system.

Edited by NiGHTMARE, 22 February 2005 - 04:15 AM.

[Andyr]

Yeh.

Igi: What would you say counts as innovative?

[SConrad]

SConrad: Unless there's something I'm missing, there's nothing particularly innovative about TPT or Khadion. DLTC is innovative, but as you know recent progress has been a little... slow.

Ah, maybe not TPT, then.

Khadion, though. But that's currently SEKR1T.

JZ is innovative, as well. Probably even more than Khadion.

[Deathsangel]

Dragon lord his NPC is nice as from one character you can come to three different personalities of the character by makin different choices. That is unique to all NPC's, perhaps you might consider that innovative.

[SConrad]

That is unique to all PC's

Not really. And you mean NPC's, right?

[Dark Templar]

uh.. yeah. But I thought it to be unique, though I know you had plans as well. And there were more, but they died to my reckoning

[edit] The Deathsangel from a friend's computer

Edited by Dark Templar, 22 February 2005 - 08:34 AM.

[igi]

I'm not sure what I'd class as innovative, it's a hard question :-)
I guess at the time, the flirt packs were, and much of DLTC is, and of course, hlid's super secret work. I try on work on new things myself as well, but they are sekrit, so... :-)

I guess I'm just tired of seeing nothing 'new', everything just seems to be "this NPC has orange hair, and a lisp so he's great".
There don't even seem to be as many spell or item packs around these days, some of those contained a few neat ideas.

[Shed]

As SConrad says, both Jerry Zinger and Khadion have innovative, new, and never before seen features. You will, however, have to wait for the release (or at least, later) to find out what they are, however .

[jcompton]

I'm not sure what I'd class as innovative, it's a hard question :-)
I guess at the time, the flirt packs were, and much of DLTC is, and of course, hlid's super secret work. I try on work on new things myself as well, but they are sekrit, so... :-)

I guess I'm just tired of seeing nothing 'new', everything just seems to be "this NPC has orange hair, and a lisp so he's great".
There don't even seem to be as many spell or item packs around these days, some of those contained a few neat ideas.

Aside from your helpful and informative declaration as to what is not innovative, I think the phrasing of your question--"innovation in editing"--betrays your bias and, ultimately, the source of your dissatisfaction.

Once upon a time, every new conquered unknown field was a cause celebre and would enable a new sort of "edit"--a novel spell effect or item permutation. Now, quite a bit is known, certainly well enough that some of us are able to focus our energies not on defeating unknowns but on actually generating cohesive playable content.

Frankly, I think a whole lot more could be done in the realm of actually producing good mods using known technology. I worry about quality more than I worry about innovation.

[igi]

Aside from your helpful and informative declaration as to what is not innovative, I think the phrasing of your question--"innovation in editing"--betrays your bias and, ultimately, the source of your dissatisfaction.

If someone is doing something with the IE that isn't editing then... what are they doing? You can only really play it, or edit it.

Once upon a time, every new conquered unknown field was a cause celebre and would enable a new sort of "edit"--a novel spell effect or item permutation. Now, quite a bit is known, certainly well enough that some of us are able to focus our energies not on defeating unknowns but on actually generating cohesive playable content

Playable content has been possible for ages. My concern is the format it takes - it's entirely creative, and mostly irrelevant to the engine. You coud take many of the proposed mods thesedays and easily move them to another engine, another game, another world, with little hassle. I'd prefer people to think "How can I use this effect" or "This command doesnt seem to be used much", as opposed to "I'll make an NPC, but he will have a banter about frogs, which will be cool, because no-one else banters about frogs", or "I will make an NPC, but he will have a banter about toads, which will be cool, because no-one else banters about toads", or "I will make an NPC, but he will have a banter about..." you get the idea.
Part of my fascination with unknowns and techical editing is that it promotes new ideas, and new thinking. You have something new, whatever you do will likely be new.
If people concentrated on what was available, and explored it, we could have much more interesting mods, rather than the same repetative drivel we see now.
How about adding a weapon made of dust, which leaves a trail where it's been. You could follow it, and leave tracks and things. How about letting tree's be cut down? How about torches? How about arson? How about being able to learn to juggle? Steal people's souls, and create zombies from them. A magic book, which detail a historial event evey time you read it. A combat fairy, who tells you how you could have fought your last battle more efficiently.
We can do all this, and much, *much* more. But everyone just makes the same 3 items, 2 spells, or 1 NPC. Again. And Again. And again.
I'm not entirely against NPC's, they are just an easy target, as they are so damn prevalent, I'd just like to see a little variety and some thought put into whats possible.

Frankly, I think a whole lot more could be done in the realm of actually producing good mods using known technology.

Yeah. Like that.


I've resorted to using CODE tags, as QUOTE didnt want to work.

[SimDing0]

The problem, I suspect, is that the number of players who are going to play a mod and keep it installed because they think "wow, the modder's really used that effect cleverly" is basically... one, you. Unless there's some good content to back something up, innovation alone isn't going to make a mod worthwhile.

The record may also show that I'm still doing assorted innovative stuff, but I don't believe there's any point in it unless it's for the sake of producing something good to play.

[jcompton]

If someone is doing something with the IE that isn't editing then... what are they doing? You can only really play it, or edit it.

If I write a novel, I may be "editing" the English language as I go, but that's not exactly the same thing as editing a novel somebody else has already written.

Semantics aside, it's clear that your interest runs more towards novel technical exploits (which often involve "editing" files to achieve some new result.)

Playable content has been possible for ages. My concern is the format it takes - it's entirely creative, and mostly irrelevant to the engine.

I would argue that--

- it's not always that creative

and

- ...so what if it's irrelevant to the engine? To me, the game is the thing. The fact that it runs on the Infinity Engine instead of Adventure Construction Set gives it distinctive capabilities and characteristics, but to some of us, the technology is entirely secondary to the story and game experience.

Part of my fascination with unknowns and techical editing is that it promotes new ideas, and new thinking. You have something new, whatever you do will likely be new.

And if my new NPC tells a story you haven't heard before, or speaks in pig latin, that's new too.

It's all well and good to say you'd like to see someone exploit the engine so that there can be 13 sparklies on the screen instead of the current limit of 10, but if there's nothing especially interesting associated with it beyond that, count me out. You do get to that...

How about adding a weapon made of dust, which leaves a trail where it's been. You could follow it, and leave tracks and things. How about letting tree's be cut down? How about torches? How about arson? How about being able to learn to juggle? Steal people's souls, and create zombies from them. A magic book, which detail a historial event evey time you read it. A combat fairy, who tells you how you could have fought your last battle more efficiently.

Yes, these are all intriguing ideas, and some would certainly require some novel/"innovative" technology to implement. Wonderful. We're all behind you.

I'm not entirely against NPC's, they are just an easy target, as they are so damn prevalent, I'd just like to see a little variety and some thought put into whats possible.

History suggests that it is considerably easier to go and do something than to pontificate about what mods other people should be making. Particularly when one has indirectly boasted that he's come up with a half-dozen "innovative" ideas nobody has implemented.

I've resorted to using CODE tags, as QUOTE didnt want to work.

I'm sorry, but as more than two and a half years of robust performance at Studios has clearly established, Invision is without peer. I suspect user error is the culprit here.

[SimDing0]

I heard the QUOTE functon was taking up 400GB of bandwidth so it got removed.

[Ghreyfain]

Warning: Elitist snobbery ensues.

True, there are a drove of NPC mods around. Not all that many are actually released. I'm excluding alphas and betas made public, because I feel that's just an attention grab without doing all the work. Anyways, of the full NPC mods that've been released, how many are actually, genuinely good? Maybe a half dozen? So that's not a huge selection. More is always good, but better is... better.

Quality > Quantity > Innovation, in my opinion. Of course, sometimes Quality and Innovation go hand in hand, so I wouldn't have anything against an innovative mod, so long as it was of a high quality, yeah? Heheh.