9 replies to this topic

[Ismail]

What's the offspring? Of, say, a fallen deva and a human? Some type of aasimar, I'd guess, but how, if at all, is it different from the aasimar that are products of a regular celestial and a mortal?

[oralpain]

I would rule that the resulting offspring simply be a standard Aasimar. I have seen nothing in offical rules or any precident that contradicts this. It would be reasonable to assume that the child may not tend toward good as much as the child of a non fallen celestial, but I highly doubt there would be any physical/tangible differences.

Of course if the fallen celestial had his or her innate nature alterd in a way that made him/her no longer a celestial at all (Baalzebul was an Archon, but is now a Baatezu) the offspring would reflect that.

[Gothic Rose]

The immediate offspring would be a Half-Fiend, actually. Fallen celestials, and Redeemed Fiends =very= quickly become something -else- when they fall/redeem. It's because the alignment energies that make up the very core of their being change, which results in -THEM- changing as well.

Remember that Redeemed Fiends and Fallen Celestials are nearly unheard of - Beelzebul and Belial are the only two examples of fallen celestials that I can think of, and truthfully, I cannot think of any canon redeemed fiends (though I've never played PST, and from what I've heard, Fall From Grace might qualify.)

If the child was concieved before the changes, then it would be a half-celestial, I guess.

Later generations -might- be Aasimar/Tiefling, and depending on the outsider in question, possibly Air/Earth/Water/Fire Genasai instead (if the outsider possessed, say, the Evil and Fire subtypes, then there's a chance the later generations might spawn some Fire Genasai, and/or tielflings)

[oralpain]

I can list a few examples of risen fiends who are still fiends despite being good and two examples of fallen celestials that are still celestials despite being non-good.

"Planes of Law", and the "Plansescape Monstrous Compendium appendix II" state that fallen archons retain their physical form. "Warriors of Heaven" says the same.

In "Hellbound: The Blood War" the PCs come across a fallen Solar (true neutral) who has retained his form and some of his abilities.

Triel/Baalzebul did not become a fiend simply because he fell. He became a fiend becasue Asmodeus actively turned him into one.

Risen Fiends:

K'rand Vahlix, male hamatula ("Faces of Evil the Fiends")
Nalura, female erineyes ("Planes of Conflict")

Semi-cannon: Fall-From-Grace, female Succubus Tanar'ri, Lawful Neutral ("Planescape: Torment")

Various Alu-Fiends and Cambions are also of neutral or good alignment, though they are half-fiends.

Fallen Celestials:

Xalatian XXIII, male trumpet archon ("Hellbound: The Blood War") - Lost all powers not directly derived from physical form
Archimedies, male solar, True Neutral ("Hellbound: the Blood War") - extent of powers retained unknown, but he still has his wish ability.
Janarr, male agathinon ("Planes of Conflict") - possibly temporarily fallen, extent of powers retained unknown, can still shapechange.

All of these have retained their orignial forms and the fiends have retained all of their powers.

Genasai are not decend from fiends or celestials they are decended from elemental creatues.

Edited by oralpain, 12 February 2005 - 03:33 PM.

[Gothic Rose]

Genasai are not decend from fiends or celestials they are decended from elemental creatues.

They're descended from extraplanar creatures with the proper "descriptors" - Cuz to my knowledge, not that many actual elementals have the...erm...physical ability to procreate, especially not with humans/others.

[Stone Wolf]

Elementally-linked creatures then. I suppose a dao could have a hybrid child. A fire elemental mating with a human would be....painful.

[Althernai]

Remember that Redeemed Fiends and Fallen Celestials are nearly unheard of - Beelzebul and Belial are the only two examples of fallen celestials that I can think of, and truthfully, I cannot think of any canon redeemed fiends (though I've never played PST, and from what I've heard, Fall From Grace might qualify.)

Fallen Celestials are actually quite common. Think about it -- out of the 9 Lords of Baator, 2 are Fallen Celestials. You don't hear about others very much because they are generally not that important, but it's a fact of life that Good cannot come in contact with Evil and remain purely Good.

Redeemed Fiends, on the other hand, are quite rare.

[oralpain]

Genasai are not decend from fiends or celestials they are decended from elemental creatues.

They're descended from extraplanar creatures with the proper "descriptors" - Cuz to my knowledge, not that many actual elementals have the...erm...physical ability to procreate, especially not with humans/others.

They are decended from creatures native to the proper elemental plane. Genies are the most common, but elemental-kin such as petch, slyphs, are also distinct possibilites. Ruvkova and shad might also be acceptable.

A fiend strongly associated with an "element" (Pit fiends, gelugons, balors) would produce half-devils(from guide to hell)/cambions, or with more dilution tieflings.

BTW, what source shows Belial as being a fallen celestial? Nothing I have give any hint that he was ever anything besides Baatezu, except perhaps his alliance with Baalezebul.

Edited by oralpain, 13 February 2005 - 01:18 AM.

[Gothic Rose]

BTW, what source shows Belial as being a fallen celestial? Nothing I have give any hint that he was ever anything besides Baatezu, except perhaps his alliance with Baalezebul.

You know, I -cannot- remember. I want to say it was a Planescape book, but if so, it wasn't one I own (since I dont own any), but thinking about it, for the life of me I cannot remember. I know what he was like (I wrote a treatise on him for a different message board, still have it I think), but not the source.

[Nemezis]

Bal-aasi

Edited by Nemezis, 17 February 2005 - 04:35 AM.