15 replies to this topic

[Feanor]

Can anyone tell me how is perceived slavery in Faerun ? There are a lot of mentionings of slavery in all the games set in FR and it seems to be sometimes legal and other times illegal ? It's a total form of slavery (greek-roman type), a slavery limited to other races than the owner's (see medieval age and modern age, black slavery) or totally illegal ? I ask about races which have some moral standards, not races evil by definition like the Underdark ones.

[Andyr]

Depends on race and region - in the more Good-aligned nations it is frowned upon, but among Evil nations and organisations (e.g. Thay, the Zhentarim) it's fine. I think Calimshan might allow slavery, too.

As you said, yeh, I think it's done by pretty much all the Evilly-aligned races too.

[Amazor'dra]

Thay has a slightly different idea on slavery, though it does indeed exist.

If I remember right (as in, I don't have any resource books in front of me.), children are tested for magical skill, if they do possess the talent then they get to move up Thay's little civilization. If there isn't any skill apparent, then they become slaves and/or some other equally low class.

Someone else could probably expand on and correct what I just said.


Menzoberranzan drow tend to view all males as slaves unless the males become high up in Sorcere, though even then they have to defer to females. Basically anything/one non-drow visiting the city are marked as slave-bait, as well as the lowest members of a House. (IE, the "commoners" under the protection of any paticular Matron Mother.)

Argh, but when it comes to drow in general, it really does depend on what city they came from.

Edited by Amazor'dra, 07 February 2005 - 09:44 AM.

[Torack]

The Zhentarim have a known slave-line thingie across Anauroch desert.

But like said, it depends on the general alignment of the nation. Places like Thay, the Ancient Empires(Of which the names I just forgot), Amn, the areas around Zhentil Keep and a few others allow slavery and it flourishes in those places.

I think the Bloodstone lands too used to allow slavery, but since Zhengy's demise its been abolished.

I believe even places like Waterdeep and Baldur's Gate condone slavery.

AFAIK there are only a few places in which slavery doesn't exist: Silverymoon, a few of the Dalelands and possible Cormyr...

Edited by Torack, 07 February 2005 - 09:48 AM.

[Feanor]

The Zhentarim have a known slave-line thingie across Anauroch desert.

But like said, it depends on the general alignment of the nation. Places like Thay, the Ancient Empires(Of which the names I just forgot), Amn, the areas around Zhentil Keep and a few others allow slavery and it flourishes in those places.

I think the Bloodstone lands too used to allow slavery, but since Zhengy's demise its been abolished.

I believe even places like Waterdeep and Baldur's Gate condone slavery.

AFAIK there are only a few places in which slavery doesn't exist: Silverymoon, a few of the Dalelands and possible Cormyr...

Torack, are you sure slavery is allowed in Amn ? In BG2, those slave traders had to work undercover...

[NiGHTMARE]

Slavery isn't legal in "modern day" Amn, despite the majority of the government being evil. However, over a hundred years before BG2, many orcs slaves were kept in the city of Purskul, after two hordes of the beings were defeated by the Amnian army.

Due to the nature of the Amnian social structure (wealth = status and power), the orcs gradually managed to acquire enough money to purchase their freedom, until eventually they were all free. Some even stayed among humans, being reasonly well accepted by the locals. Some orcs even married into poor human families, in fact, this was so common that almost 1/3 of the "modern" population of Purskul are half-orcs.


Waterdeep most definitely doesn't condone slavery... though there is an Underdark city directly below Waterdeep called Skullport, which has a thriving slave trade (as well as many other entirely illegal businesses).


Oh, and another country in the Realms where slavery is almost certainly illegal would be Tethyr.

Edited by NiGHTMARE, 07 February 2005 - 03:05 PM.

[fallen_demon]

Wouldn't these 'illegal'businesses be entirely legal in skullport?

[Torack]

Torack, are you sure slavery is allowed in Amn ? In BG2, those slave traders had to work undercover... 

Well, that was the game, and as it is the game isn't a really good reflection of the world.

For instance, the Temple District is named so because it used to be a Temple District. In modern day Athkatla the place is turned into a merchant quarter IIRC. The only thing that stuck was the name.

Another thing that the game wrongly portrays are the Radiant Heart HQ(That from what little I remember do not have a HQ in Athkatla or even a chapter for that matter) and the role of te Cowled Wizards(They themselves are a rogue group and do not police Athkatla for magic use. Nor do they have a giant anti-magic fortress somewhere.)

I don't have the time currently to look into this at a more detailed level, so I'll just nod sagely and point to Nightmare's post.

If the interest is high enough, I'll do a book search for it and see what turn up on Athkatla, Amn and slavery.

Edited by Torack, 08 February 2005 - 12:09 AM.

[Deathsangel]

I though in all drow cities male were viewed as inferior and were more or less slaves.

The Calimshan Sjeiks (wrongly written, but I mean to write it like the way those arabian leaders are called) have slaves and that is allowed I believe. In NWN the spymaster (forgot his name) was borne into slavery.

Luskan and its surroundings also deal in slavery.

Indeed like Nightmare says Waterdeep does not condone slavery. Neither does Neverwinter I believe and I reckon that Baldur's Gate also doesn't condone it in contrast to what Torack says.

But after all said and discussed. I believe you can say that, if slavery is allowed depends on race and region. What type of slavery is also dependent on the region, i.e. Drow is more modern age IMO as man are not slaves, but just really low and Calimshan is just roman-greek total slavery. Viewing as a whole I believe, if slavery is present is most of the times more a total slavery than modern age slavery.

[Amazor'dra]

Some drow cities (at least one that I can remember) is ruled by males, then you got those undead drow cities/communities and the drow who worship someone other than Lloth that have their own little areas in the Underdark.

When your life is governed by another's, can be sold to someone else on a whim, and be killed for disobediance.... that pretty much sums up slavery.

Edited by Amazor'dra, 08 February 2005 - 07:03 PM.

[The Leveler]

Slavery is used by the Aboleths, Drow, Illithid, ect. It is legal in Luskan, and some of the Uthgardt tribes, but some honor-debt too. Slaves make up at lest 70% of the population in Thay, and Mullhorand, the country with about 3 evil gods and at lest 10 good aligned ones     (LG gods-hypocrites) sanctions slavery. It also happens in Unther, and most of the captives from Unther become temple slaves in Mulhorand. It happens in various islands too. Most realms are slave free, but the ones that use it use it pretty heavily.

[NiGHTMARE]

Wouldn't these 'illegal'businesses be entirely legal in skullport?

If someone built a giant underground city below, say, New York, would that mean the laws of America shouldn't (in theory) apply to said giant underground city?

[oralpain]

Laws are unenforceable in skullport, not nonexistant.

[fallen_demon]

Wouldn't these 'illegal'businesses be entirely legal in skullport?

If someone built a giant underground city below, say, New York, would that mean the laws of America shouldn't (in theory) apply to said giant underground city?

Yes, but this would be the only example of an underground city and the United States government would decide It US territory and no one would have a way to argue otherwise. The underdark contains countless cities that have existed throughout recorded history and individual areas of the underdark have defined themselves from the surface nations that correspond above them. Also, the city under New York would be made up entirely of people who left the US surface, alternativly isn't skullport's an entirely different race?

[NiGHTMARE]

Many Underdark cities were built before most human nations even existed, so there were few human territories for them to intrude upon. Skullport came about after Waterdeep, being founded IIRC by criminals from the surface (though admittedly there was already an abandoned Netherese outpost when the founders arrived). Also, Skullport isn't all that far below the surface.

All in all, it's directly in Waterdeep's territory. The fact the Lords of Waterdeep don't want to waste lives and money on capturing the place and enforcing the law there doesn't mean Waterdhavian law doesn't technically apply to it.

Put it this way - imagine Skullport as a slum which has been so overwhelmed by the criminal element that the guards are too afraid to go there. It just happens to be exist underground.

As for the population of Skullport, it includes all manner of different races. Humans, drow (including numerous good aligned drow), duergar, dopplegangers, beholders, and illithid are the most common. There are also a few yuan-ti, demons, undead, and many others.

Edited by NiGHTMARE, 09 February 2005 - 03:58 AM.

[fallen_demon]

Oh, sorry, didn't know that. Yeah, I'm completley wrong.