Due to copyright, trademarks, reserved material, and so on...
What can one do, what content can one create/utilise in total conversion mods? What is the limit of using certain notions? And what notions are there?
If I'd be making a total conversion, can I use
- geography of Faerun (I'll stick to it, it has most copyrights of all systems, so everywhere else it'll have more breathing space);
- place names appearing in source books and novels;
- people appearing in source books and novels;
- monsters in source books and novels;
- etc.
I know there have apparently been some releases to general society, but I bet most of the content is tightly copyrighted and/or trademarked. What do people do to receive permissions to release TCMs? Is there a need for such a permission? Etc.
As for the mod... My idea was (and is, I guess) to create a total conversion of IWD2 to Dark Sun setting. I know it's foolhardy to say the least, but is it possible? With DS materials available - high quality, clear and just the right amount - they are not a problem. Neither is a plot, I am already thinking of one, and am open to any suggestions. The problems that face are:
- graphics - a total conversion to Athas means totally new graphics. Easy on one hand, since there are no consistency problems with existing graphics, but hard on the other since there really isn't a point in which to start...
-- a remake of the interface, new character portraits, and a new map are all in order - but these are by far the easiest ones to do;
-- new full screen pictures - between chapters, title screen, load screen, and so on
-- new paper dolls - this is probably the most difficult thing to do, as almost everything will have to be created anew. Even with the entire variety available in BG1/2, IWD1/2, and other total conversions, the lack of monsters indigenous to Athas is probably the most complicated issue...
-- new areas - as said above, there are no problems with consistency, so creating new graphics from scratch is easy when it comes to deserts, but would be difficult (too difficult, perhaps) when cities, or special places were considered.
- music - would BG/IWD/BG2/IWD2's music be ok? Doubtful, so the mod would require some composing, or reusing other music. I know that it would be foolish to even ponder getting a symphony orchestra to perform for free, so scratch that idea
- voicing - that, I believe, is the easiest thing to do - with the number of people with high quality equipment in their homes, and good voice talent, it is the easiest thing to do...
Now, I'd like to 'submit myself to your opinions' - would such a mod be interesting to you, would you get it if developed, and is anyone interested in creating it?
A total conversion mod idea
Started by toughluck, Nov 24 2004 07:55 AM
10 replies to this topic
#2
SConrad
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I swear to drunk I'm not God
Posted 24 November 2004 - 08:06 AM
Have you any prior modding experience? A TC-project is nothing that should be taken lightly. It's really, really, difficult to do all what you're describing, and it requires a LOT of time and hard work. We're talking blood, sweat and tears.
Khadion NPC mod - Team leader, head designer
Hubelpot NPC mod - Team leader, coder
NPC Damage - Coder
PC Soundsets - Coder, voice actor
Brythe NPC mod - Designer
DragonLance TC - Glory of Istar - Designer
The NPC Interaction Expansion Project - Writer for Cernd, Sarevok
The Jerry Zinger Show - Producer
Iron Modder 5 - Winner
#3
-Ashara-
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Posted 24 November 2004 - 10:09 AM
I'll put it simply - you will not be able to do it in under 3 years of putting a minimum of 20 hours a week into the project. See a Dragon Lance TC for an example of a similar scope.
That's if you speak from experience, not misconception on how easy it is to do new area graphics or voicing...
That's if you speak from experience, not misconception on how easy it is to do new area graphics or voicing...
#4
NiGHTMARE
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Posted 24 November 2004 - 10:16 AM
I would strongly advise anyone thinking of making a Total Conversion to consider going with a 3D engine rather than something like the Infinity Engine. 3D models are a lot quicker - not to mention easier - to create than sprites, and even creating new areas is normally quicker as well.
If your aim is to extend the original game, or you can recycle a lot of content from the existing games, then of course the IE is your best bet. But if, as in your case, most of the content is going to brand new, something like the Aurora Engine (Neverwinter Nights) is a much safer bet. The Infinity Engine has certain advantage of its own (many would say it allows for some much nicer visuals), but you have to balance that against the extra time and effort it would require.
If your aim is to extend the original game, or you can recycle a lot of content from the existing games, then of course the IE is your best bet. But if, as in your case, most of the content is going to brand new, something like the Aurora Engine (Neverwinter Nights) is a much safer bet. The Infinity Engine has certain advantage of its own (many would say it allows for some much nicer visuals), but you have to balance that against the extra time and effort it would require.
#5
Gothic Rose
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Sexkitten
Posted 24 November 2004 - 10:47 AM
Everyone above is correct. As Nightmare suggests, using a different engine might be better. Even the Aurora Engine (Neverwinter Nights/KOTOR) is better for that kind of project.
As for copyright...well, as long as you don't MAKE MONEY then you're ok, generally.
As for copyright...well, as long as you don't MAKE MONEY then you're ok, generally.
#6
toughluck
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Posted 24 November 2004 - 10:50 AM
I am perfectly aware of all the problems associated with such a mod. And I know I would never be able to do it alone, that is simply impossible. Granted, many people frequent these fori, so it gives a fair chance of finding people that would help by creating content. Well, one can only hope, but even a very small conversion would be a lot - gaining even a small foothold and a base for much greater mods in the future.
What is basically needed now, is a new set of graphics (a small portion of a city, desert, desert, desert, desert, and a bit more desert...), adapted perhaps from somewhere else, a few paperdolls for indigeneous creatures, and paperdoll modifications for the party - mainly about removing clothes...
This, I feel, is more difficult (and requires more people) than simple (yes - lengthy and tedious, I'm perfectly aware of that!) adding/removing a few feats, changing classes, the spell system, weapons (description and look) and monsters. That simple editing could take a few weeks, and would end up a playable "Dark Sun" setting, with the changes, but visuals and aureals are more important here...
This is only an idea, after all, and anything tangible is tides away, but this thread will (hopefully) assess how many people are interested and how many would help in development of it. As small as it would be, a first mod, with new classes, new races, new spells, new items, new areas and new creatures, no matter how short, would definitely provide leverage for future... Or be completely forgotten...
What is basically needed now, is a new set of graphics (a small portion of a city, desert, desert, desert, desert, and a bit more desert...), adapted perhaps from somewhere else, a few paperdolls for indigeneous creatures, and paperdoll modifications for the party - mainly about removing clothes...
This, I feel, is more difficult (and requires more people) than simple (yes - lengthy and tedious, I'm perfectly aware of that!) adding/removing a few feats, changing classes, the spell system, weapons (description and look) and monsters. That simple editing could take a few weeks, and would end up a playable "Dark Sun" setting, with the changes, but visuals and aureals are more important here...
This is only an idea, after all, and anything tangible is tides away, but this thread will (hopefully) assess how many people are interested and how many would help in development of it. As small as it would be, a first mod, with new classes, new races, new spells, new items, new areas and new creatures, no matter how short, would definitely provide leverage for future... Or be completely forgotten...
#7
-Ashara-
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Posted 24 November 2004 - 12:20 PM
And I know I would never be able to do it alone, that is simply impossible. Granted, many people frequent these fori, so it gives a fair chance of finding people that would help by creating content.
It is next to impossible to find anyone willing to help to do highly skilled graphics creation. You have to do it yourself.
What is basically needed now, is a new set of graphics (a small portion of a city, desert, desert, desert, desert, and a bit more desert...), adapted perhaps from somewhere else, a few paperdolls for indigeneous creatures, and paperdoll modifications for the party - mainly about removing clothes...
Both Area Creation and Paperdoll modification are beyond standard editing modding skills.
This, I feel, is more difficult (and requires more people) than simple (yes - lengthy and tedious, I'm perfectly aware of that!) adding/removing a few feats, changing classes, the spell system, weapons (description and look) and monsters. That simple editing could take a few weeks, and would end up a playable "Dark Sun" setting, with the changes, but visuals and aureals are more important here...
adding new creatures, kits, classes, editing weapons and spells are more common, and yes, can be done in a few months time, depending on quantity and customisation level.
You will need to allocate months for writing and dialogue coding as well.
This is only an idea, after all, and anything tangible is tides away, but this thread will (hopefully) assess how many people are interested and how many would help in development of it. As small as it would be, a first mod, with new classes, new races, new spells, new items, new areas and new creatures, no matter how short, would definitely provide leverage for future... Or be completely forgotten...
It is generally a good idea to assume that you will be doing everything alone.
It is next to impossible to find anyone willing to help to do highly skilled graphics creation. You have to do it yourself.
What is basically needed now, is a new set of graphics (a small portion of a city, desert, desert, desert, desert, and a bit more desert...), adapted perhaps from somewhere else, a few paperdolls for indigeneous creatures, and paperdoll modifications for the party - mainly about removing clothes...
Both Area Creation and Paperdoll modification are beyond standard editing modding skills.
This, I feel, is more difficult (and requires more people) than simple (yes - lengthy and tedious, I'm perfectly aware of that!) adding/removing a few feats, changing classes, the spell system, weapons (description and look) and monsters. That simple editing could take a few weeks, and would end up a playable "Dark Sun" setting, with the changes, but visuals and aureals are more important here...
adding new creatures, kits, classes, editing weapons and spells are more common, and yes, can be done in a few months time, depending on quantity and customisation level.
You will need to allocate months for writing and dialogue coding as well.
This is only an idea, after all, and anything tangible is tides away, but this thread will (hopefully) assess how many people are interested and how many would help in development of it. As small as it would be, a first mod, with new classes, new races, new spells, new items, new areas and new creatures, no matter how short, would definitely provide leverage for future... Or be completely forgotten...
It is generally a good idea to assume that you will be doing everything alone.
#8
SConrad
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I swear to drunk I'm not God
Posted 24 November 2004 - 12:56 PM
As domi says, look at Dragonlance TC (link in my signature). It's an ongoing project, and a huge one. We've got some of the best modders in the community working in all areas, from area creation to new items.
The project's been active for more than two years, and we're nowhere near finished.
The project's been active for more than two years, and we're nowhere near finished.
Khadion NPC mod - Team leader, head designer
Hubelpot NPC mod - Team leader, coder
NPC Damage - Coder
PC Soundsets - Coder, voice actor
Brythe NPC mod - Designer
DragonLance TC - Glory of Istar - Designer
The NPC Interaction Expansion Project - Writer for Cernd, Sarevok
The Jerry Zinger Show - Producer
Iron Modder 5 - Winner
#9
toughluck
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Posted 24 November 2004 - 03:13 PM
Like nightmare said... A 3D engine could be the best bet... I do have a question, however - is there any such engine which allows to create a cRPG game with D&D 3E rules, fully moddable, and which sold fairly many copies?
Of course - aside from Aurora, which I find awful - tedious to work with; no power to do any reasonable single player mod (too many constraints); very hard (none) party control. That engine was made for one PC, preferrably multiplayer...
Ech, it would be a lot easier if bioware decided to release some game with a 3D version of the IE - with 3D paperdolls, maybe even 3D environment - a lot easier (as has already been said) to make a good-looking setting reasonably fast.
Of course - aside from Aurora, which I find awful - tedious to work with; no power to do any reasonable single player mod (too many constraints); very hard (none) party control. That engine was made for one PC, preferrably multiplayer...
Ech, it would be a lot easier if bioware decided to release some game with a 3D version of the IE - with 3D paperdolls, maybe even 3D environment - a lot easier (as has already been said) to make a good-looking setting reasonably fast.
#10
Gothic Rose
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Sexkitten
Posted 24 November 2004 - 03:20 PM
I cannot think of any 3D 3e games.
As for where you can get graphics....I'd suggest that you look to the OLD Darksun CRPG games...
Darksun: Shattered Lands
Darksun: Wake of the Ravager
Best you're gonna get.
As for where you can get graphics....I'd suggest that you look to the OLD Darksun CRPG games...
Darksun: Shattered Lands
Darksun: Wake of the Ravager
Best you're gonna get.
#11
Sykus
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Posted 03 January 2005 - 06:39 PM
I was just thinking of starting to fiddle with making a Dark Sun TC myself, so I searched to see if one was already done first. I have never done any mod whatsoever, and I was planning on learning as I went along. I'd be interested in helping, I have the majority of the Dark Sun source books and adventures.
