8 replies to this topic

[jaegar]

I've finished SOA with BP, and while reading the README of Weimer's Tactics mods I realize that not all components are included with BP. If I install Tactics on top of BP will there be any problems?

[Stone Wolf]

I'd imagine so. I think all the compatible tactics components are already built into BP. What precisely do you want to add?

[seanas]

yes.

if yr lucky, all that will happen is that the tactics additions will stand around and do nothing (seeing as how BP uses updated - ie different - versions of the underlying .ids files). if yr unlucky, you'll have to reinstall from scratch.

it's not too much drama to make the relevant script compatible: just fire up DLTCEP, open the offending scripts, click 'check script', fix the errors DLTCEP spews out, and recompile. you might need to change the .tp2 file when installing it too (or yu might have to install it manually), but i couldn't swear to that.

which bits aren't included, other than the continuously spawning in-town night-time attackers?

[jaegar]

I'd imagine so.  I think all the compatible tactics components are already built into BP.  What precisely do you want to add?

These are a few areas/encounter which I breezed thru without even trying.. (IE I dont see much if any difference from an unmodded BG2)

Improved TorGal and De'Arnisse Keep *
Gebhard Blucher's Improved Mae'Var *
Improved Guarded Compound in the Temple District *
Tougher Druid Grove *
Improved Sahuagin City
Slightly Tougher Demons

* = pre Spellhold, less than 1.2mill xp party

[jaegar]

yes.

if yr lucky, all that will happen is that the tactics additions will stand around and do nothing (seeing as how BP uses updated - ie different - versions of the underlying .ids files). if yr unlucky, you'll have to reinstall from scratch.

Ugh!! I guess I'll just stick with what works =)

which bits aren't included, other than the continuously spawning in-town night-time attackers?

In all honesty, I dont know which components are in or out, but reading this in depth review of tactics Six of Spades Tactics Review, I feel the difficulty that he raved on encounters I described in the previous post did not match my playthru experience. Most others (Beholders, Mindflayers, Kangaxx) whupped my ass satisfactorily

[seanas]

These are a few areas/encounter which I breezed thru without even trying.. (IE I dont see much if any difference from an unmodded BG2)

Improved TorGal and De'Arnisse Keep *
Gebhard Blucher's Improved Mae'Var *
Improved Guarded Compound in the Temple District *
Tougher Druid Grove *
Improved Sahuagin City
Slightly Tougher Demons

* = pre Spellhold, less than 1.2mill xp party

then crank up the difficulty level: BP increases the number and difficulty of opponents according to the difficulty slider.

Guarded Compound and Sahaugin City probably are harder in Tactics, seeing as how BP make no significant changes to them. BP's Mae'Var is based heavily on the Tactics version, although Mae'Var himself isn't upgraded in the same way. De Arnise Keep is significantly tougher in BP (those bloody spectral trolls) - if it's too easy, remove the nerfs component from the s_and_h patch; TorGal himself is a bit easier in BP, seeing as how it doesn't use cheesy scripting. likewise the druid grove: more trolls = harder, although the shadow druids (and faldorn, obviously - that cheesy scripting again) are easier. cheesy is a pejorative term, i admit: i should probably say that BP creatures hew much more closely to their PnP versions than tactics ones do (and more closely than vanilla BGII creatures - which is why the trolls are tougher); and BP doesnt script creature actions that the party can't use, except as they can be explained by the innate powers or preparations of the creatures concerned.

Edited by seanas, 01 November 2004 - 04:59 PM.

[jaegar]

then crank up the difficulty level: BP increases the number and difficulty of opponents according to the difficulty slider.

Guarded Compound and Sahaugin City probably are harder in Tactics, seeing as how BP make no significant changes to them. BP's Mae'Var is based heavily on the Tactics version, although Mae'Var himself isn't upgraded in the same way. De Arnise Keep is significantly tougher in BP (those bloody spectral trolls) - if it's too easy, remove the nerfs component from the s_and_h patch; TorGal himself is a bit easier in BP, seeing as how it doesn't use cheesy scripting. likewise the druid grove: more trolls = harder, although the shadow druids (and faldorn, obviously - that cheesy scripting again) are easier. cheesy is a pejorative term, i admit: i should probably say that BP creatures hew much more closely to their PnP versions than tactics ones do (and more closely than vanilla BGII creatures - which is why the trolls are tougher); and BP doesnt script creature actions that the party can't use, except as they can be explained by the innate powers or preparations of the creatures concerned.

I was playing on Hard, and the only new area I touched was Purskal (TDD I think) for fear that all the extra items and xp will make some of the 'hallmark' encounters too easy too early heheh.

Anyway, I do understand the reasoning for not including the cheese Faldorn etc, I wanted to see if I can include them incase more asskicking is required; but it looks to be more trouble than it's worth heh.

[Sir BillyBob]

Faldorn was one of Horred's little surprises. Her constant shapeshifting would heal her so you had to start all over. The trolls are the other major change and there is a battle up behind the "potion lady" that Horred added as well (don't think any other mod had that).

Torgal throws boulders at you which does the same effect as a wing buffet. With several trolls and other assistants, this battle is definitely harder than a normal BGII game.

I believe some of the other battles were not included because TDD or another included mod already had encounters in those areas (think of the mountain area and the Tactic's dragons here). It was too hard to get several events to happen in those areas, so Tactics had to be dropped from those areas.

[Radagast-The-Brown]

About the tactics...ok I admit some of its components are cheesy but most of them are quite realistic but still didn't end up in BP-tactics...
For example the improve demons is pure realism...gives pit fiends (lords of the baatezu) some of their true powers (like illusions and lethal bite).
The twisted rune party was also unrealistic without tactics.A high lvl fighter without items, a very high lvl lich, plus a 18lvl mage wielding the staff of the magi but never used it (yawn) and still this party was dealt with in chapter2 and even by solo characters.This just doesn't make sense.Also the guarded compound for similar reasons (18lvl conjurer but he never cast a high lvl spell plus the celestial fury guy who didnt wear any good armor) was a piece of cake.

All I'm saying is that there are some GREAT components in tactics that weren't implemented in BP and I'm sure many would love to have a way of installing them...It IS worth it to make some components at least which aren't cheesy compatible with BP. Of course the same applies to Improved Battles...

Besides most BP Players complain about the low difficulty of the game after advancing above 18lvl (which can even happen in Chapter2 as I remember) so making such mods compatible would REALLY spice up their game and give at last a meaning to play a game where u can actually die, which is more than realistic since in pnp games there are always chances to die especially when facing great dangers like dragons-liches etc... (few exceptions of course like Kangaxx Guardians and yellow dragon which r really hard already).
I just wish there was someone willing to make a compatible version of such mods.
I would do it myself but I hardly know how...