if you do the vale of shadows at the point in the game where yr supposed to - ie, straight out of the cells in chateau irenicus - not only do you not have viccy, but the only clerics you have access to (dar and accalia) aren't of high enough level to chunk *any* of the armies of undead in the vale.
undead are usually no problem in BP - except in the vale of shadows....
Balance
Started by Shiva, Oct 24 2004 08:53 PM
42 replies to this topic
#41
seanas
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- Modder
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- 1906 posts
Posted 02 November 2004 - 12:59 AM
"A simple test of the relative merits of science and religion is to compare lighting your house at night by prayer or electricity" - A. C. Grayling
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#42
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Posted 07 November 2004 - 09:51 PM
Nice topic, would be good to move it to a more public area like Maestro said, but since this kind of topic tends to... call just for the WORST inside every mod out there, maybe its not such a good idea.
You cant, ever, expect a mod to be balanced, since everyone has his own perspective about what is balanced anyway. The best you can do is learn a bit about modding and help yourself.
I've changed the whole table of reputation discounts and all files of stores to make the prices something I believe would be right in my game. I'm not trying to match the AD&D economy, just the game economy
For example.. lets talk weapons, there will never be a +4 or +5 weapon wich adds a good effect for something less than around 100 000 gold, and still for the items that have no need to buy, just collect in the game, if they're too powerful its easy to reduce their power and damage additions, or their % of doing something really nasty, these little changes makes the game sooo much better (yeah and it takes a lot of time too)
I think that I've to agree with hlid in the point that force scripts ruin the game, everytime I face a script that causes the breaking of the game rules to deliver "challenge", I feel sorry for the maker of said act cause to me, he failed when he could no more devise a way to deliver challenge following the rules, its cheating, I doubt that anyone here likes to be cheated. And even worse, I dont feel sorry only for the maker of this said sittuation but I feel sorry for myself too for being in middle of it. :^^:
the whole thing of balance kinda gets down to:
group 1 - charname opens the door, he feels an unusual scent as he takes steps to the center of this strange, large, magic shadowed room, where he was told to find the whocares crystal, as the group is closely getting to what seems like a long abandoned altar, dark figures that couldnt be noticed before start swarming from everywhere around, their burning red eyes and black, steel carapace revealing their demon like nature, after a short fight, some basic attack spells and some short duration defensive spells, the group, getting wounded, was able to manage the way back at the door and out of the room. They try to earn more time, but unfortunately, it seems theres magic on the door that prevents it to be closed again, they cant study it nut only after whatever these creatures that are getting at them, have died or killed the whole group, and the beasts dont appear like they want to wait to see what will the end be, atleast out of that room the group has a better position to fight. A lot of cutting and casting from the two sides later, charname group is victorious, they get what they've come for and leave the accursed room. Now they feel more uneasy, they're a little worn out and the night is still 4-5 hours ahead, and that cool outfited mage who asked for the crystal didnt seemed completely sane, they better measure their words well.
group 2 - a door opens, high lvl area magic comes trough the door and inside the room, again and again, some creatures seem like they're in a bit of pain inside the room, and these creatures make their way at whoever opened the door, and didnt even bother to try and close the door too, could they knew about the magic of the door ?.. the creatures ask themselves, as they are getting to cross the very same door, yet another spell seems to cut their dark magic, revealing their true positions, just when they're getting to the outside, to get face to face to a group fully buffed and ready to strike the last blows at these dying, ridiculous beasts. After a short battle, with all beasts defeated, the group gets the crystal and closes the door, to rest inside the strange, death feeling like room, since they want all their full power back to kill the mage that asked for the crystal, if not for rightousness, just for having that cool robe he wears.
I cant tell you that I'm truly group 1, I get my ass beaten quite often, cause I like to pretend "I dont know", even if I do, I try to think like the group would.. I guess majority of players is middle ground, they like to pretend without pretending too much for fear that they will loose something.
Man.. if you've already played so many times that you can finish this game manipulating the mouse with a foot and the keyboard with the nose, well nobody cares, nobody that counts, if you want challenge go play a real strategy game against real people. I cant tell enough how much being group 2 just.. empty this game of everything it could be, from its simple logic at its very feeling, and the worse is that even some modders dont get it, atleast you can extract a couple lines of good dialogue in every mod.. atleast..
Every mod to me is unbalanced, some mods scream UNBALANCE... Improved Ilyich / Valen / most of tactics / kuroisan (or whatever is his name) and the cloack you never got from him comes to mind.. a lot of 15 000 gold +5 decapitating sword of improved haste mods come to mind, a lot of power hungry mediocre plots with only intent seem to make the game look alien comes to mind, now must try and find a phrase that wont make me look like a mod nazi.. nah I dont think I can.. :thumb: but this smiley looks so nicey.
You cant, ever, expect a mod to be balanced, since everyone has his own perspective about what is balanced anyway. The best you can do is learn a bit about modding and help yourself.
I've changed the whole table of reputation discounts and all files of stores to make the prices something I believe would be right in my game. I'm not trying to match the AD&D economy, just the game economy
For example.. lets talk weapons, there will never be a +4 or +5 weapon wich adds a good effect for something less than around 100 000 gold, and still for the items that have no need to buy, just collect in the game, if they're too powerful its easy to reduce their power and damage additions, or their % of doing something really nasty, these little changes makes the game sooo much better (yeah and it takes a lot of time too)I think that I've to agree with hlid in the point that force scripts ruin the game, everytime I face a script that causes the breaking of the game rules to deliver "challenge", I feel sorry for the maker of said act cause to me, he failed when he could no more devise a way to deliver challenge following the rules, its cheating, I doubt that anyone here likes to be cheated. And even worse, I dont feel sorry only for the maker of this said sittuation but I feel sorry for myself too for being in middle of it. :^^:
the whole thing of balance kinda gets down to:
group 1 - charname opens the door, he feels an unusual scent as he takes steps to the center of this strange, large, magic shadowed room, where he was told to find the whocares crystal, as the group is closely getting to what seems like a long abandoned altar, dark figures that couldnt be noticed before start swarming from everywhere around, their burning red eyes and black, steel carapace revealing their demon like nature, after a short fight, some basic attack spells and some short duration defensive spells, the group, getting wounded, was able to manage the way back at the door and out of the room. They try to earn more time, but unfortunately, it seems theres magic on the door that prevents it to be closed again, they cant study it nut only after whatever these creatures that are getting at them, have died or killed the whole group, and the beasts dont appear like they want to wait to see what will the end be, atleast out of that room the group has a better position to fight. A lot of cutting and casting from the two sides later, charname group is victorious, they get what they've come for and leave the accursed room. Now they feel more uneasy, they're a little worn out and the night is still 4-5 hours ahead, and that cool outfited mage who asked for the crystal didnt seemed completely sane, they better measure their words well.
group 2 - a door opens, high lvl area magic comes trough the door and inside the room, again and again, some creatures seem like they're in a bit of pain inside the room, and these creatures make their way at whoever opened the door, and didnt even bother to try and close the door too, could they knew about the magic of the door ?.. the creatures ask themselves, as they are getting to cross the very same door, yet another spell seems to cut their dark magic, revealing their true positions, just when they're getting to the outside, to get face to face to a group fully buffed and ready to strike the last blows at these dying, ridiculous beasts. After a short battle, with all beasts defeated, the group gets the crystal and closes the door, to rest inside the strange, death feeling like room, since they want all their full power back to kill the mage that asked for the crystal, if not for rightousness, just for having that cool robe he wears.
I cant tell you that I'm truly group 1, I get my ass beaten quite often, cause I like to pretend "I dont know", even if I do, I try to think like the group would.. I guess majority of players is middle ground, they like to pretend without pretending too much for fear that they will loose something.
Man.. if you've already played so many times that you can finish this game manipulating the mouse with a foot and the keyboard with the nose, well nobody cares, nobody that counts, if you want challenge go play a real strategy game against real people. I cant tell enough how much being group 2 just.. empty this game of everything it could be, from its simple logic at its very feeling, and the worse is that even some modders dont get it, atleast you can extract a couple lines of good dialogue in every mod.. atleast..
Every mod to me is unbalanced, some mods scream UNBALANCE... Improved Ilyich / Valen / most of tactics / kuroisan (or whatever is his name) and the cloack you never got from him comes to mind.. a lot of 15 000 gold +5 decapitating sword of improved haste mods come to mind, a lot of power hungry mediocre plots with only intent seem to make the game look alien comes to mind, now must try and find a phrase that wont make me look like a mod nazi.. nah I dont think I can.. :thumb: but this smiley looks so nicey.
#43
SecretMonkey
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- Member
- 4 posts
Posted 08 November 2004 - 01:03 PM
As a once avid Pencil and paper gamer, for me it's all about the story and the characters involved. You always, however had someone trying to Min/Max their character and ruining it for the pure gamers. Pure gamers plan every encounter no matter how trivial, especially when resurrection costs almost as much (whether in gold or favors) as they are likely find on their quest. Everyone hates the guy who shows up with the 18 17 16 15 14 13 guy because generally all he can contribute is, " Screw it, beef me up with your spells follow me into the fray." 90% of the time, out smarting your opponets is far more rewarding than walking strait up to them and hacking them to death with your hackmaster6000*. And sometimes surviving an encounter is it's own reward. Consequences, in role-playing as in real life, must be directly proportionate to Actions taken and gains recieved otherwise you are just another 18 17 16 15 14 13 God among men. And THAT to me is boring.
I understand that in this age of doing what sells, anyone in any kind of business has to pander to the masses and the gimme society that is America (and soon to be Western Europe). I understand and accept that fact when I sit down and play my closest substitute for pencil and paper RPG's; Shadows of Amn. What I can't accept is being able to purchase power on a quest to raise my stats to slay increasingly more powerful beasties to get more gold to buy more power etc... If I want to do that I'll go play Dungeon Siege.
Don't get me wrong here; Baldurs Gate has existed on my hard drive in one form or another since 1999. That in itself is a testament to how awesome an experience it is. I am not sharp shooting anyone here or belittling anyones contributions. I salute all of you for your Dungeon Mastering. But a Dungeon Master is first and foremost a storyteller. And any good storyteller knows that what makes a good story is Human (or other racial) struggle, reward and consequence. Remember, even Hercules, Horatio, Achilles, Richard Couer de Leon and Patton died tragically. Oedipus had his misfortunes as did Arthur. And all good Vikings die in glorious combat.
That said I'll stop now before I write a book. Happy gaming. I'm off to check out all of these awesome looking mods for the first time.
*Stole that label somewhere
I understand that in this age of doing what sells, anyone in any kind of business has to pander to the masses and the gimme society that is America (and soon to be Western Europe). I understand and accept that fact when I sit down and play my closest substitute for pencil and paper RPG's; Shadows of Amn. What I can't accept is being able to purchase power on a quest to raise my stats to slay increasingly more powerful beasties to get more gold to buy more power etc... If I want to do that I'll go play Dungeon Siege.
Don't get me wrong here; Baldurs Gate has existed on my hard drive in one form or another since 1999. That in itself is a testament to how awesome an experience it is. I am not sharp shooting anyone here or belittling anyones contributions. I salute all of you for your Dungeon Mastering. But a Dungeon Master is first and foremost a storyteller. And any good storyteller knows that what makes a good story is Human (or other racial) struggle, reward and consequence. Remember, even Hercules, Horatio, Achilles, Richard Couer de Leon and Patton died tragically. Oedipus had his misfortunes as did Arthur. And all good Vikings die in glorious combat.
That said I'll stop now before I write a book. Happy gaming. I'm off to check out all of these awesome looking mods for the first time.
*Stole that label somewhere
Edited by SecretMonkey, 08 November 2004 - 01:05 PM.
