38 replies to this topic

[T.G.Maestro]

As the title suggests.
Since we have to delay the Five Revisions for a while, there is a good chance that we will (try) to implement this kit after v2.

This is only a gossip of course...

[Andyr]

I have already made one for Lands of Intrigue. Somewhere on my hard drive at home... What were your plans?

[T.G.Maestro]

Only the base sketches:


BLACKGUARD

The blackguard epitomizes evil. He is nothing short of a mortal fiend. The quintessential black knight, this villain carries a reputation of the foulest sort that is very well deserved. Consorting with demons, devils and serving dark deities, the blackguard is hated and feared by all. Some people call these villains anti-paladins due to their completely evil nature. Their black hearts revel only in darkness. Blackguards tend to be either terribly disfigured or diabolically charming.
(the description may change of course)


Blackguards should be a paladin kit (if possible with all these changes listed below);

Disadvantages:

-They lose spellcasting abilities;
-They can only be ?evil?;
-They lose all paladin-specific innates;
-They cannot use Holy or Good Aligned weapons and items;
-They should ?fall? if their reputation goes above a set limit, losing all of their special powers;
-Pure ?Good? NPCs attack the PC Blackguard on sight (the Radiant Heart for example);


Here are the proposed advantages:

-they can Turn Undead as an evil priest/paladin would do, in other words they take control instead of killing them at high levels --- (starting from 1st level) NOTE: I?m not sure about this one, maybe it should be dropped and replaced by a HLA ? see later!;

-permanent Aura of Despair from 1st level (both an advantage and a downside: it affects all ?good? creatures around the Blackguard in a small area -10? radius for example. I?m still undecided about its effects);

-Detect Good (every 5th level, starting from 1st level);

-Protection from Good (every 3rd level, starting from 1st level);

-Backstab x1 from start (increasing to x2 at 10th and to x3 at 20th levels);

-Poison Weapon at 11th level, once/day.

-Permanent Protection from Good (removes the ?at-will? PfG innates from the selection and adds the same bonuses as permanant passives) --- (16th level);

-Cause Moderate Wounds at 5th level, as per the priest spell. It improves to Cause Serious Wounds at 10th and to Critical wounds at 15th level.

-Contagion (once/day) at 13th-14th(?) level.



HLAs (??? means the undecided abilities):

-Whirlwind Attack(?);
-Power Attack;
-Smite Good (slightly nerfed Smite with increased bonuses vs. good creatures);
-Deathblow;
-Greater Deathblow;
-War Cry;
-Slay Living (slightly improved version of the 5th level priest spell);
-Poison Weapon ((additional pick(s) to the existing innate));
-Fiendish Ally (summons a Demon/Devil to aid the Blackguard);
-Unholy Aura (improves the Aura of Despair by adding protection/minor control over undead ? if we drop Turn Undead);
-Executioner?s Eyes (increases Critical chance to 25-30% for 3 rounds);
-Hardiness(?);
-Resist Magic(?);
-Toughness;
-Brimstone Pact.

Edited by T.G.Maestro, 18 October 2004 - 08:24 AM.

[Sir-Kill]

FYI my avatar is a blackguard

[T.G.Maestro]

I know, I have that set of pictures too.
I already have a nice collection of Blackguard portraits.

[Littiz]

hmm, since you helped with SA, I'll have to do my part with this monster...
but of course I'll try to delay it as much as possible

[T.G.Maestro]

Heh..

You try to delay the INEVITABLE...

Really, it will serve as a fitting... counterpart for the SA..

[Andyr]

That sounds pretty similar to what I did. I'll see if I can find it, later.

[Galactygon]

-They lose all paladin-specific innates;

I might suggest to rather have all the polar opposite abilities as the paladin; e.g. withering touch instead of lay on hands (like a touch attack that does 2 points of damage per level), Summon Fallen Deva rather than Summon Deva, etc.

I think I made this suggestion back at G3; I don't remember.

-Galactygon

[T.G.Maestro]

I think I made this suggestion back at G3; I don't remember.

Yes, you did. I just read that yesterday.

I might suggest to rather have all the polar opposite abilities as the paladin; e.g. withering touch instead of lay on hands (like a touch attack that does 2 points of damage per level), Summon Fallen Deva rather than Summon Deva, etc.

This idea has merit, though I cannot say I ever loved the idea of Blackguards being the negative opposites of paladins. Sure, they must have the strict differences, but I think a bit more freedom can make this kit really unique and entertaining. And thats what we aim for here
But if you look carefully, I'm positive you can spot several of those so called opposites here:
- opposite Turn Undead (hmm, is it possible to assign an Evil Turn Undead ability to a paladin kit?);
- Aura of Despair (paladins get Holy Aura as a HLa in Refinements. NOTE that these auras are REAL auras: they are permanent, and keep affecting the surrounding every round or so! To be honest, I always wondered how people can call "Aura" an ability that is simply cast, affect a few creatures, and thats it... )
- Detect Good;
- Contagion (Lay on Hands);
- Fiendish Ally (Summon Deva);
and so on.

That sounds pretty similar to what I did. I'll see if I can find it, later.

Naturally, I'd be interested in your work Andy. I recently saw that discussion about Blackguards over at G3, but it ends without any conclusions. Please PM me if you find the references for your version.

[T.G.Maestro]

Good, as it seems now we will be able to create this kir right after we finish the work on v2. Hopfully it won't last too long.

[Feanor]

TG, I'm back in analyzing your ideas, hehe (something like this : :gun: ).

1. A permanent Protection from Good won't be too powerful, TG ? I imagine what a permanent protection from evil would mean...
2. Backstab : no. Since the blackguard is similar to the paladin in fighting style and tactics, how can you justify this ? He won't be able to surprise his opponents.
3. Poison : the same objection as the previous one. It can be acceptable only if the Blackguard can acquire the poison from someone or somewhere.
4. What kind of fiendish ally ? I would suggest a Tanarri.

[Andyr]

My version had Backstab (actually the 3E Prestige Class did) and Poison (also true). My Fiendish Ally depended on alignment.

I also gave castings of Animate Dead and a couple of other things, but yeh, haven't got around to digging stuff out yet.

[Andyr]

Ok, found it. So I dumped Backstab from my version as he can't do Stealth. Kit is based on a Fighter with all races allowed and all Evil alignments.

HLAs I hadn't finished; I was using the Fighter ones. Thought about adding the Assassin one to do with poison, and a Fiend - summoning one. Though I'm not sure which Yugoloth to call for a NE one. Also I'd make them party - controlled, as I assume the Blackguard would have some power over it (and no PfE).

This was the blurb:

The Blackguard is a warrior devoted to Evil and the service of vile deities, quite the opposite of the Paladin. A powerful, self - serving and single - minded foe, the Blackguard is a fearsome being, the quintessential villain.

Sometimes called Anti - Paladins, many Blackguards start off as warriors who quickly become seduced by the powers they can obtain and the hold they have over others. They freely trample over the innocent in their quests to get what they want. The most depraved Blackguards are often Paladins who, seduced by promises of power whispered by foul deities, have fallen from grace. Regardless of their origins, Blackguards enjoy a blasphemous range of powers which they use to spread the message of their divine patron as they wreck a trail of despair across the land.

Advantages were:

- Smite Good once per day. This is as Unholy Blight but affecting only one Good target rather than an area, and using the red pillar visual effect.
- Poison Weapon as assassin once per day per 10 levels.
- Contagion once per day from level 7.
- Animate Dead once per day from level 9.


Disadvantages were not being able to go beyond ** in weapons.

[T.G.Maestro]

1. A permanent Protection from Good won't be too powerful, TG ? I imagine what a permanent protection from evil would mean...

What would it mean Feanor?

2. Backstab : no. Since the blackguard is similar to the paladin in fighting style and tactics, how can you justify this ? He won't be able to surprise his opponents.
3. Poison : the same objection as the previous one

Both of these are completely legit Blackguard powers from pnp and crpgs.

I dumped Backstab from my version as he can't do Stealth

But they can use Invisibility Potions.

Kit is based on a Fighter with all races allowed and all Evil alignments.

We'll try to do this for paladins. I'm a bit indecided about elven Blackguards though...

HLAs I hadn't finished; I was using the Fighter ones

Um, no, definitely a unique table, roughly based on the fighter table in Refinements.

Thought about adding the Assassin one to do with poison

Yep, they'll be able to pick additional uses of the Poison Weapon innate through a HLA.

a Fiend - summoning one. Though I'm not sure which Yugoloth to call for a NE one.

Since there are completely no Yugoloth avatars in BG2, I think this version will make it possible for the Blackguard to summon/gate a "friendly" Tanar'ri or Baatezu, depending on alignment.

Animate Dead once per day from level 9

I think I'll add two possible "paths" for the Blackguard, one for the necromantic arts and one for the demonology. I don't think I'll allow them to use demon-summons and undead servants at the same time.

Disadvantages were not being able to go beyond ** in weapons.

Now, this is truly nothing as a disadvantage to balance so many bonuses. We'll see.

[Feanor]

Don't forget that Blackguard is a warrior kit, that's why I said it could be too powerful.

[T.G.Maestro]

And as I said above we'll try to make it a paladin kit.

[GreyViper]

Ok if and when the Blackguard kit makes into game will there be some NPC that will use this kit. It would be nice if some NPC with this kit pop up in pally HQ quests.
Or would they be better as hired swords for some badie?

Edited by GreyViper, 25 October 2004 - 01:07 AM.

[T.G.Maestro]

GreyViper, let us just CREATE it first, we can speculate about these things thereafter...

[Caveman]

A permanent Protection from Good won't be too powerful, TG ? I imagine what a permanent protection from evil would mean...

Wouldn't it equal a +2 AC bonus and saving throws toward attacks from good aligned opponents?

It would be nice if fallen paladins had the option of taking this kit. I'm not sure if that could even be coded though.