I am aware that the maximum number of Kits for Wizards has already been acceived with Throne of Baal.
My idea was this:
For those of you how are old 2nd edition AD&D junkies like me, you may remember new Specialist Wizards appearing in various TSR projucts, such as Player's Option: Spells and Magic
Basically, if it is possible to REPLACE the existing kits(other than the Wild Mage), here are some interesting ideas:
Elementalists(Fire,Water,Earth and Air): Wizards who specialize in one of the four elements.
They gain Elemental Immunitys with advanced levels and can control Elementals of their type better
Shadow Mage: A Wizard who controls Darkness and the Shadow.
With advancing levels, these Wizards gain better and better Vision, and the ability to hide in shadows like a thief.
Force Mage: A Wizard who specializes in Spells related to Forcefields and Energy.
With advancing levels, these Wizards accuire master over forcefield type spells, enabling them to cast them better than other wizards.
Chronomancer: A Wizard who specializes in Spells dealing with Time and Time Travel, such as Haste, Slow and Time Stop. Possibly the most mysterious of all Wizards.
Chronomancers cast Slow, Haste, Timestop and other related spells as though they were two levels higher. With advancing levels, Chronomancers can better resist the effects of time-based magic directed against them.
Of coarse, the mod would also include new Spells such as Conjure Water Elemental for example, other new spells would fill in the gaps so to speak, Like Wall of Water from Spells and Magic for example.
New Wizard Kits
Started by
-Sword_of_Geddon-
, Oct 13 2004 11:44 AM
20 replies to this topic
#2
Aion
-
- Member
- 505 posts
Soul Of Magma
Posted 14 October 2004 - 03:24 AM
Interesting idea, but...replacing original kits? Is that possible? If so, wouldn't it mess with the classes the NPC's in the game have? 
Like Edwin being a Chronomancer, and Xzar a Water Elementalist or something? 
Like Edwin being a Chronomancer, and Xzar a Water Elementalist or something?
Edited by Moongaze, 14 October 2004 - 03:25 AM.
#3
hlidskialf
-
- Modder
-
- 2510 posts
Incarnation of the Eternal Ale Warrior
Posted 14 October 2004 - 04:39 AM
*Points to the Search button.*
The great wolf Fenrir gapes ever at the dwelling of the gods.
#4
-Sword_of_Geddon-
-Sword_of_Geddon-
-
- Guest
Posted 14 October 2004 - 01:23 PM
?????
Anyway, I'm sure it is possible, I mean, look at Hierdalis for example, he is a Tiefling, a Race you cannot select in BG2. If the standard Wizard Kits were changed, than I think that Edwin would remain the same.
Anyway, I'm sure it is possible, I mean, look at Hierdalis for example, he is a Tiefling, a Race you cannot select in BG2. If the standard Wizard Kits were changed, than I think that Edwin would remain the same.
#5
Aion
-
- Member
- 505 posts
Soul Of Magma
Posted 16 October 2004 - 04:56 AM
Mm....possible. :/ Sounds like a good idea, but if it involves replacing the actual Kits, I would have to say no...
#6
Archmage Silver
-
- Member
- 6654 posts
Master of The Art
#7
-Guest-
-Guest-
-
- Guest
Posted 16 October 2004 - 12:12 PM
I agree..Is there anyone who knows more on this issue? Perhaps an expierenced modder?
#8
Deva
-
- Modder
-
- 1378 posts
Possum of the Grotto
Posted 16 October 2004 - 12:23 PM
The elementalists might be better suited to sorcerer kits. A sorcerer could have a connection with a particular element, plus, you wouldn't have to replace old wizard kits.
Click to feed.
Adopted from Valenth
My adoptables > Your adoptables.
#9
Archmage Silver
-
- Member
- 6654 posts
Master of The Art
Posted 16 October 2004 - 12:48 PM
Yes, that would be a better choice obviously. And what disadvantages a sorcerer using a kit would get?
#10
Awake
-
- Member
- 685 posts
Posted 16 October 2004 - 12:59 PM
i don't believe it's possible for sorcerer, barbarian, or monk kits. i could be wrong...
Black Wyrm Forums host of the World Transition Project, Beastial Animations, and much more!
And the raven, never flitting, still is sitting, still is sitting
On the pallid bust of Pallas just above my chamber door;
And his eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming,
And the lamp-light o'er him streaming throws his shadow on the floor;
And my soul from out that shadow that lies floating on the floor
Shall be lifted - nevermore!
Like dealing with terrorists by giving them explosives. -NotMrT
If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there.
And the raven, never flitting, still is sitting, still is sitting
On the pallid bust of Pallas just above my chamber door;
And his eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming,
And the lamp-light o'er him streaming throws his shadow on the floor;
And my soul from out that shadow that lies floating on the floor
Shall be lifted - nevermore!
Like dealing with terrorists by giving them explosives. -NotMrT
If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there.
#11
LordKableNikon
-
- Member
- 111 posts
I'm not a psychopath,I'm a sociopath....
Posted 16 October 2004 - 01:07 PM
Firstly haste and slow are not chronomancy, haste is a transmutation spell that makes you a few years older in AD&D 2nd edition and even in 3.5 it still is transmutation, you are changing your body to make yourself faster, you aren't slowing time down for everyone, and time-stop is the exact same way, you make yourself so fast, everything seems to slow down, so a protection from time-stop spell doesn't really make sense, since you are protecting yourself from someone augmenting themselves. Try and find the 4 books of magic for AD&D second edition and look for Prismal, and Prismal's wormhole etc... that is a chronomancer, and the school of force and so forth, is in a few rare 2nd edition magic books if you can find it, ranging from magic missle to the bigby hands etc...
#12
-Guest-
-Guest-
-
- Guest
Posted 17 October 2004 - 12:24 PM
Ah, but theres where you are wrong...there is more than one way to cast a Haste Spell. Different Wizards have different ways of casting spells(and there is, according to 2nd edition rules, more than one version of a particular spell floating around). For a Chronomancer, the spell does not change the person's body, but speeds up time around that person, allowing the person to move and attack faster.
#13
LordKableNikon
-
- Member
- 111 posts
I'm not a psychopath,I'm a sociopath....
Posted 17 October 2004 - 01:01 PM
ok, then incorporating the fact it ages the person atleast 2 years...
and is only time stop haste and slow be his only chronomancy spells, you are probably going to have to find what spells a chronomancer uses.
so When I see Prismal's wormhole, I'll know there is a real chronomancer.
and is only time stop haste and slow be his only chronomancy spells, you are probably going to have to find what spells a chronomancer uses.
so When I see Prismal's wormhole, I'll know there is a real chronomancer.
#14
Stone Wolf
-
- Member
- 1672 posts
Posted 17 October 2004 - 01:27 PM
I love having the Wizard's Spell Compendium, it makes this so easy 
Wizard spells that are also Chronomantic spells:
Lasting Breath
Alacrity
Haste
Slow
Slowspell (and Slowspell 10' radius)
Extension (I, II, III)
Improved Haste and Slow
Permanence
Time Stop
Improved Alacrity (IE games only)
Then they get a bunch of their own spells. That does not include Prismal's wormhole, as that's a dimensional spell, not chronomantic. Perhaps you're thinking of Prismal's Reversal?
Wizard spells that are also Chronomantic spells:
Lasting Breath
Alacrity
Haste
Slow
Slowspell (and Slowspell 10' radius)
Extension (I, II, III)
Improved Haste and Slow
Permanence
Time Stop
Improved Alacrity (IE games only)
Then they get a bunch of their own spells. That does not include Prismal's wormhole, as that's a dimensional spell, not chronomantic. Perhaps you're thinking of Prismal's Reversal?
#15
Awake
-
- Member
- 685 posts
Posted 17 October 2004 - 02:05 PM
ok, i REALLY don't think it's possible to have PC selectable wizard kits. I would think igi knows what he's talking about, but i could be wrong... or not....
Black Wyrm Forums host of the World Transition Project, Beastial Animations, and much more!
And the raven, never flitting, still is sitting, still is sitting
On the pallid bust of Pallas just above my chamber door;
And his eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming,
And the lamp-light o'er him streaming throws his shadow on the floor;
And my soul from out that shadow that lies floating on the floor
Shall be lifted - nevermore!
Like dealing with terrorists by giving them explosives. -NotMrT
If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there.
And the raven, never flitting, still is sitting, still is sitting
On the pallid bust of Pallas just above my chamber door;
And his eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming,
And the lamp-light o'er him streaming throws his shadow on the floor;
And my soul from out that shadow that lies floating on the floor
Shall be lifted - nevermore!
Like dealing with terrorists by giving them explosives. -NotMrT
If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there.
#16
Nerik
-
- Member
- 42 posts
Posted 18 October 2004 - 05:23 AM
I thought of one way to do this (adding more of the 2nd ed. wizard specialists - <pedant>technically they are not actually kits as defined in AD&D</pedant>), but I realised there were a couple of problems...
My idea was to use a system similar to that used by the sub-race mod:
Replace the available wizard kits selection list with:
Philosophical Specialist (these are the ones already available: abjurer etc., not including wild mage)
Effect Specialist (Elementalists, Shadow Mages, Force Mages, etc. - Chronomancers should be listed here as well)
Thaumaturgical Specialists (Alchemists, Geometers, Artificers, Song Mages, etc.)
For simplicity, Elementalists and Wild Mages could be given their own coding.
Once the game began, a dialogue would start allowing the player to choose which actual specialist the character was.
Problem
Although the 'new' specialists (except for elementalists) implemented their opposition schooles using the standard philosophical schools (alteration, evocation, etc.) - doing it this way, there is no way to prevent a player selecting spells that the character couldn't cast, and which would then be removed from their spell books - wasting a spell selection (if they memorised a forbidden spell, they would have worst problems - as I found out when experimenting with NPCKit
).
There is a bigger problem for elementalists, whose opposition schools are based on the elements - how do we tell which element a spell belongs to?
An alternative method would be to to retain the existing kit selection screen - but then have a dialogue allowing the character's kit to be changed to an effect or thaumaturgical specialist with the same opposition school(s) - this uses the more liberal opposition schools of the IE games, probably combined with reducing the opposition schoools of the 'new' kits. Any mod that re-introduced full PnP opposition schools would break this.
Sliding off-topic - does anyone know if it would be possible to implement the PnP specialist wizard restriction that at least 1 spell of each level memorised should be of the wizards speciality?
As a final thought - the artificer specialist would fit Jan perfectly - but I think this should be a part of NPCKit.
Charles
My idea was to use a system similar to that used by the sub-race mod:
Replace the available wizard kits selection list with:
Philosophical Specialist (these are the ones already available: abjurer etc., not including wild mage)
Effect Specialist (Elementalists, Shadow Mages, Force Mages, etc. - Chronomancers should be listed here as well)
Thaumaturgical Specialists (Alchemists, Geometers, Artificers, Song Mages, etc.)
For simplicity, Elementalists and Wild Mages could be given their own coding.
Once the game began, a dialogue would start allowing the player to choose which actual specialist the character was.
Problem
Although the 'new' specialists (except for elementalists) implemented their opposition schooles using the standard philosophical schools (alteration, evocation, etc.) - doing it this way, there is no way to prevent a player selecting spells that the character couldn't cast, and which would then be removed from their spell books - wasting a spell selection (if they memorised a forbidden spell, they would have worst problems - as I found out when experimenting with NPCKit
).There is a bigger problem for elementalists, whose opposition schools are based on the elements - how do we tell which element a spell belongs to?
An alternative method would be to to retain the existing kit selection screen - but then have a dialogue allowing the character's kit to be changed to an effect or thaumaturgical specialist with the same opposition school(s) - this uses the more liberal opposition schools of the IE games, probably combined with reducing the opposition schoools of the 'new' kits. Any mod that re-introduced full PnP opposition schools would break this.
Sliding off-topic - does anyone know if it would be possible to implement the PnP specialist wizard restriction that at least 1 spell of each level memorised should be of the wizards speciality?
As a final thought - the artificer specialist would fit Jan perfectly - but I think this should be a part of NPCKit.
Charles
#17
Andyr
-
- Member
- 2318 posts
HERR RASENKOPF
Posted 18 October 2004 - 06:40 AM
I am pretty sure you can do it, although through scripting or dialogue. But not on the main character selection screen.ok, i REALLY don't think it's possible to have PC selectable wizard kits. I would think igi knows what he's talking about, but i could be wrong... or not....
"We are the Gibberlings Three, as merry a band as you ever did see..." - Home of IE mods
< jcompton > Suggested plugs include "Click here so Compton doesn't ban me. http://www.pocketplane.net/ub"
< jcompton > Suggested plugs include "Click here so Compton doesn't ban me. http://www.pocketplane.net/ub"
#18
Potencius
-
- Member
- 114 posts
Posted 18 October 2004 - 06:51 AM
Mage "kits" are all treated as individual classes for the purposes of modding, if I remember right. To make a proper mage kit, you'd need to take an existing class (true class is fine) and allow kit selection through a series of global variables. Then abilities and such would have to be applied through script rather than 2da.
The Glory of Istar - A Dragonlance Total Conversion
I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth. - Umberto Eco
The truth of #meeting:
KenTeamBG: a/s/l
Deano: 14/f/in ur heart
* KenTeamBG it's getting hot so i remove my jacket
Daxziz: Oooh
* Echon, MaxTeamBG and Hlidskialf all get naked.
* SimDing0 has joined #meeting
SimDing0: Eew.
* SimDing0 has left #meeting
* KenTeamBG sets mode: +b SimDing0
I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth. - Umberto Eco
The truth of #meeting:
KenTeamBG: a/s/l
Deano: 14/f/in ur heart
* KenTeamBG it's getting hot so i remove my jacket
Daxziz: Oooh
* Echon, MaxTeamBG and Hlidskialf all get naked.
* SimDing0 has joined #meeting
SimDing0: Eew.
* SimDing0 has left #meeting
* KenTeamBG sets mode: +b SimDing0
#19
-Sword_of_Geddon-
-Sword_of_Geddon-
-
- Guest
Posted 18 October 2004 - 10:29 AM
So basically, there is support for this, but the means to accomplish it are unclear..
#20
Deva
-
- Modder
-
- 1378 posts
Possum of the Grotto
Posted 18 October 2004 - 10:57 AM
Perhaps they cannot choose spells of an opposing element. For example, an ice elementalist couldn't use fire, and the other way round.Yes, that would be a better choice obviously. And what disadvantages a sorcerer using a kit would get?
Click to feed.
Adopted from Valenth
My adoptables > Your adoptables.
