64 replies to this topic

[Radagast-The-Brown]

For me this is a bug...of course, its just an error in scripting or should I say someone forgot to give dragons their REAL abilities...another TDD bug...

All dragons in TDD, CAN be backstabbed, CAN be charmed, and CAN fall UNCONSCIOUS!!!

I actually had a dagger which forced the victim to save or fall unconscious...
I also managed to score a backstab with it dealing 125 dmg or so...the gold dragon died in about 2 rounds most...I also managed to charm it with Valens Domination not to mention that at her first blow the dragon fell UNCONSCIOUS!!!

If anybody wants to check for themselves I have 2screenshots from this battle...just pm me give me an email and I'll send u the pics...

the bad thing is that the backstab part JUST SUCKS and can also be done with the dracolich if im not mistaken...in any case a dragon SHOULD be IMMUNE to all these effects...

[Sir BillyBob]

Actually, this doesn't suprise me at all. Immunities are based on knowing what the spell or effect is going to be. For example, to say a creature is immune to poison, you set their CRE file to have immunity to effect "25". However, if an item or spell uses it's own "poison" and uses a different effect number "999" or something, than the immunity can't catch this.

I see this with all sorts of new items and spells. Instead of using what is already in the SPELL.IDS file, new spells are added which do the same thing as the current spells, but maybe slightly different. There are about 5 dimension doors in the SPELL.IDS file. Why? Doesn't one do the job?

So the dragon is immune to the basic backstab and other effects, but your dagger and Valen both, use new effects that were not anticipated and therefore the dragon isn't immune to them.

[Radagast-The-Brown]

Actually, this doesn't suprise me at all. Immunities are based on knowing what the spell or effect is going to be. For example, to say a creature is immune to poison, you set their CRE file to have immunity to effect "25". However, if an item or spell uses it's own "poison" and uses a different effect number "999" or something, than the immunity can't catch this.

I see this with all sorts of new items and spells. Instead of using what is already in the SPELL.IDS file, new spells are added which do the same thing as the current spells, but maybe slightly different. There are about 5 dimension doors in the SPELL.IDS file. Why? Doesn't one do the job?

So the dragon is immune to the basic backstab and other effects, but your dagger and Valen both, use new effects that were not anticipated and therefore the dragon isn't immune to them.

ok then what do u have to say about this...I managed to STUN the dracolich AND drop him unconscious with YOSHIMO...all he did was use power attack, critical strike etc....It was only a matter of seconds of pounding the dragon with fighters using ToB Abilities and the dragon was re-stunned all the time until he died....


Not to mention the script problem in SoA dragons...as a matter of fact these dragons are immune to ALL backstab, unconsciousness, stun, even from items or Valen!! (including her charm)...isnt that odd??

But look what problem these have :
1.they have spell-casting failure (this is not too much of a problem)
2.when they use wingbuffet they happen to deal dmg to THEMSELVES some times too!! (This is a huge problem I think)

The only way to notice the 2. bug is to watch at all times the console...then u'll see that most of the times they use wing buffets, they actually take some dmg...like :
Adalon Dmg Taken (15) or so...

I hope this bug happens to me only, but I doubt it...
Dragons are easier then ever...

[Ferrumach]

.when they use wingbuffet they happen to deal dmg to THEMSELVES some times too!!

-i confirm and they fell unconscious

[Shed]

Isn't this really because TDD sucks?

Just a thought :/.

[Stone Wolf]

Now, now, it has bugs but I still enjoy it.

Really, it just sounds like they need whatever dragon immunity item that BG2 dragons wear added on.

[Radagast-The-Brown]

Isn't this really because TDD sucks?

Just a thought :/.

LOL.Tell us something we don't know...

PS : The bad part is that SoA Dragons are also affected while they shouldn't since they suppose to use the tactics-smarter dragons component in BP...Instead of smarter they kill themselves!!!

[Psykotik]

Isn't this really because TDD sucks?

Just a thought :/.

TDD doesn't "suck". Please, respect the work involved. It's the first mod wide sized, sort of experimental mod.

It has many bugs, plots are unidimensional, right; but I really don't understand the pleasure found by beeing so contemptuous. You can criticize, but what's the point of beeing so rude ? Do you feel better ? Be constructive, instead; arguments have never kill anyone.

Edited by Psykotik, 28 September 2004 - 12:26 PM.

[Shed]

Isn't this really because TDD sucks?

Just a thought :/.

TDD doesn't "suck". Please, respect the work involved. It's the first mod wide sized, sort of experimental mod.

It has many bugs, plots are unidimensional, right; but I really don't understand the pleasure found by beeing so contemptuous. You can criticize, but what's the point of beeing so rude ? Do you feel better ? Be constructive, instead; arguments have never kill anyone.

I know. The statement is, however, true in comparison to today's mods. I know that TDD was the first mod of any significance, and that subsequent modding owes much to it. That doesn't mean it's any good to play now.

[Sir BillyBob]

Isn't this really because TDD sucks?

Just a thought :/.

TDD doesn't "suck". Please, respect the work involved. It's the first mod wide sized, sort of experimental mod.

It has many bugs, plots are unidimensional, right; but I really don't understand the pleasure found by beeing so contemptuous. You can criticize, but what's the point of beeing so rude ? Do you feel better ? Be constructive, instead; arguments have never kill anyone.

I know. The statement is, however, true in comparison to today's mods. I know that TDD was the first mod of any significance, and that subsequent modding owes much to it. That doesn't mean it's any good to play now.

Maybe so, but what does that have to do with BP? Horred should have incorporated the same immunities to all dragons when he built BP. I haven't looked through the creature files to verify though. It would be strange to find that some are immune and some aren't. That isn't typical of his work.

Which leads me to the next question, are you seeing this problem with all dragons or just some? If so, which ones?

[Stone Wolf]

The item that grants all of those immunities is Dragring.itm, so it's an easy fix. Just whack that into a ring slot and off you go!

[seanas]

i've just taken a look at all the dragons in BP: they're *all* wearing one of DRAGRING.ITM, RING97.ITM, RING97X.ITM, RING97y.ITM or RING97z.ITM (ring97, 97x, 97y and 97z are all versions of dragring, but without quite the same laundry list of immunities: they all have immunity to WING_BUFFET though, unless i'm reading the .itm files incorrectly).

my own personal opinion, given the problem radagast was having earlier with enemies standing around doing nothing, is we're looking at another of those hidden .IDS incompatibilities: ie one or more mods (several NPC mods spring to mind) have replaced the BP .IDS (usually STATS.IDS and SPELL.IDS) with their own, older versions, and so various scriptiing states don't work as they're supposed to - ergo, no immunities as the state being reference no longer exists in the relevant .ids file.

Edited by seanas, 28 September 2004 - 02:14 PM.

[Stone Wolf]

Crap. Any suggestions for a work around?

Edited by Stone Wolf, 28 September 2004 - 02:30 PM.

[seanas]

yep.

dig the stats.ids and spell.ids files out of whichever backup folder of whichever mod had replaced them (NPCs are the usual suspects) and copy them into the override folder (don't move them, or weidu will choke on any uninstall/ resinstall).

Horred's BPDetectable Stats mod is good too, for making sure that the right version of stats.ids stays installed (if i understand the way weidu works, which is a pretty big if!).

[Stone Wolf]

Yeah, but will that mess up the NPC mod? I don't know what changes they might have made.

Oh well, I'd rather have an NPC mod behaving oddly than all of BP!

[Sir BillyBob]

So, how about a list of your currently installed mods, Radagast? We can start looking through their installs to see who the problem child is.

This goes back to a issue I brought up earlier that the BG community needs a standard version of these IDS files. Something that all mods can either work off of or add to, but can't replace.

[hlidskialf]

It's likely the Tougher Sendai Oversight component. In a PM I'd told him it wasn't compatible, yet he'd installed it anyways...

[Ferrumach]

It's likely the Tougher Sendai Oversight component

Hlid, i don't think, my install: ( in this order )
BP-NEj(+patch+patchBP)- Dark ritual - F.R. and R.O.V.- Cal - Item upgrade- Npcflirt ( only component jaheira soa+tob)
at this moment i remember chromatic dragon ( SOA) fell unconscious.

and AFTER, just before tob i have installed Tougher Sendai Oversight. and improved oasis 2

[seanas]

Ferrumach, by 'chromatic dragon', do you mean the one on the Tortured Souls island? because that thing is supposed to be unkillable (and it wears the DRAGRING.ITM).

i thought, from your post on La Couronne, that you hadn't done the Sime romance? because the only way you can kill the chromatic dragon is when you get teleported back to the island during the Sime romance.

not having ever done the Sime romance, i don't really know what happens then: it is possible that it loses its dragring before this battle, so it might be susceptible to attacks that make it unconscious. if, on the other hand, you managed to kill it the first time, then something pretty major has gone wrong....

[Ferrumach]

Seanas, i totally agree it is unkillable and i never managed to simply injure it...
but i noticed this fact,
I confirm i i haven't got sime in my team.
I made this fight just to see ( i knew i won't be able to kill it) and cause i was very careful about its weakness now i remember this problem... ( but some others dragons too)
maybe with 30 minutes of fight : one time he fell unconscious ( but no damage ) i was very happy but only for this dragon.

PS:
just to tell you that when i didn't know nothing about patch, baldurdash, mod etc... i remember that abazigal-dragon sometimes had the same problem.

radagast: can you give me a dragon ( other than the chromatic ) that you remember had this problem i will verify.

Edited by Ferrumach, 28 September 2004 - 11:21 PM.