If Mystra ceased to exist, would the Weave disappear or just behave strangely?
And what about those mages who learned magic on Toril and now reside somewhere else (ie. Khelben Ravencloak Arunsun who lives on Greyhawk), do they still use the Weave commanded by Mystra? And is the Weave same everywhere or are there more than a one Weave of magic? And if its same everywhere, wouldn't the gods of magic have to share it?
About the Weave...
Started by Archmage Silver, Sep 25 2004 08:23 AM
54 replies to this topic
#1
Archmage Silver
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#2
Stone Wolf
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Posted 25 September 2004 - 11:28 AM
If's it's subject to any god or gods, why would magic function in the city of Sigil, where the gods are banned and can't act directly?
#3
Feanor
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Posted 26 September 2004 - 01:19 AM
If it's not, why magic ceased to exist in Faerun when Karsus ripped Mystryl of his power ?If's it's subject to any god or gods, why would magic function in the city of Sigil, where the gods are banned and can't act directly?
#4
Stone Wolf
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Posted 26 September 2004 - 01:28 AM
Mystryl can control magic in Faerun, but not everywhere. I was just saying that the authority of the different gods of magic is only local, but I wasn't that clear.
#5
Archmage Silver
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Posted 26 September 2004 - 03:20 AM
What about if some mage learns to use magic somewhere where there are no gods present, does he have limitations or no?
#6
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Posted 26 September 2004 - 06:21 AM
Whenever a mage travels to a different crystal sphere with a different cosmology, eg. Realmspace to Krynnspace, he has to learn how to manipulate the magical forces there. Using my prior example, a Realmsian mage that travels to Krynn would have to learn how to focus magical energy using the three moons.
On a world without a god of magic there would be no limits on the power of spells, beyond perhaps, the availability of spell components or the mage's intelligence. You have to remember, the ban on all spells above 9th level applies only to the Forgotten Realms because only there is Mystra goddess of magic and only there has she instated that ban.
On a world without a god of magic there would be no limits on the power of spells, beyond perhaps, the availability of spell components or the mage's intelligence. You have to remember, the ban on all spells above 9th level applies only to the Forgotten Realms because only there is Mystra goddess of magic and only there has she instated that ban.
#7
NiGHTMARE
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Posted 26 September 2004 - 10:02 AM
I remember reading somewhere (and I'm pretty sure it was a canon somewhere 
) that different worlds in the prime have different natural levels of magic. On some worlds, magic doesn't exist at all, while on others magic is so prevalent that even the simplest of animals is partially magical in nature.
) that different worlds in the prime have different natural levels of magic. On some worlds, magic doesn't exist at all, while on others magic is so prevalent that even the simplest of animals is partially magical in nature.
#8
Stone Wolf
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Posted 26 September 2004 - 11:50 AM
That's from one of the 2E Player's Option books, though I'll be damned if I can remember which one.
#9
dorotea
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Posted 26 September 2004 - 06:18 PM
If Mystra ceased to exist, would the Weave disappear or just behave strangely?
Depends on the interpretation really. I have read quite a few by different Toril sages, and in my understanding yes -- the Weave will be destroyed. But in fact it does not mean that Toril will be stripped of magic altogether... it might mean only that its magic will have to be accessed on the different level, and that present spells will not work -- ie mages will have to rediscover access to magic and Toril will turn into a 'low magic' world over being 'magic rich' as it is now. The Weave simply provides easier access -- so Bards, sorcerers, dragons, phaerim and other 'lesser creatures'
can use it almost on 'autopilot' unlike wisards who actually shape it to their liking. There is something rather weird about Toril btw -- for example it has 'another copy' of the Weave -- the Shadow Weave -- created and maintained by Shar. It is a crazy notion IMHO, since if Mystral - Mystra1 - Mystra2 (Midnight) are 'embodiments' of the Weave, Shar is merely a major goddess who nevertheless managed to recreate her own version of the planet's whole magical field!Add to this that high elven magic is supposedly ordered by Corellon -- and to perform these spells you need access to Arvandor as well as to the Weave -- and you will get one rather crazy system...
Edited by dorotea, 26 September 2004 - 06:24 PM.
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#10
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Posted 26 September 2004 - 06:33 PM
I think that system is called "Making sh*t up as you go along and not checking previous work."
#11
dorotea
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Posted 26 September 2004 - 07:35 PM
Yup -- exactly my feeling. 
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#12
Archmage Silver
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Posted 27 September 2004 - 07:00 AM
Interesting and at the same time very irritating, it seems. And one more question which troubles me; when an entirely magical creature enters a dead magic zone, is the creature destroyed, since its magic ceases to exist?
#13
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Posted 27 September 2004 - 10:09 AM
And one more question which troubles me; when an entirely magical creature enters a dead magic zone, is the creature destroyed, since its magic ceases to exist?
Hmm, once again it is not that easy to answer. My bet would be -- a summoned creature would be instantly unsummoned 'back to the Planes'. A magical construct like golem, arcane magic-animated undead or juggernaut would fall apart or simply turn into an un-animated object. A magical creature like dragon or pixie would survive but lose all special powers while inside the zone (ie pixie would be able to fly but will not glow or cast spells, dragon would still be able to fight and maybe even use breath weapon, unless it is totally magical -- but would not be able to cause 'fear' or cast any special draconic spells). Elf would probably lose all connection to the Elven Spirit while inside -- with all the consequences... But maybe it depends on the zone 'size'?? I would bet that any mythal within 'dead magic' zone would unravel immediately -- unless it is woven from 'shadow magic' strands... Here is the curious question btw, if there is this 'anti-magic' field (the shadow weave) in existence -- would it mean anti-magic creatures as well? I.e. 'shadow' golems and 'shadow' griffins and dragons?
#14
Archmage Silver
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Posted 27 September 2004 - 10:26 AM
Well, we know that there are shadow dragons , but yes, if there were shadow red dragons etc.? Could be possible I suppose, but I think that there would exist some lore about them.
, but yes, if there were shadow red dragons etc.? Could be possible I suppose, but I think that there would exist some lore about them.
#15
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Posted 27 September 2004 - 10:30 AM
One of the short stories in Realms of Shadow (a collection of short stories about Netheril) features something like a stasis-clone (it's not actually a stasis clone, but I forget the name of the actual spell ) created via the shadow weave. In fact, the story even reveals that shadow mythals are possible, since the clone is powered by one.
) created via the shadow weave. In fact, the story even reveals that shadow mythals are possible, since the clone is powered by one.
#16
Archmage Silver
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Posted 27 September 2004 - 10:50 AM
And if a shadow Mythal is possible, then the shadow creatures as well?
#17
Kish
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Posted 27 September 2004 - 11:12 AM
Shar is the original evil deity, and still the most powerful deity. I like the Shadow Weave precisely because it does show the extent of Shar's power.It is a crazy notion IMHO, since if Mystral - Mystra1 - Mystra2 (Midnight) are 'embodiments' of the Weave, Shar is merely a major goddess who nevertheless managed to recreate her own version of the planet's whole magical field!
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#18
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Posted 27 September 2004 - 11:37 AM
Shar is the original evil deity, and still the most powerful deity. I like the Shadow Weave precisely because it does show the extent of Shar's power.
Shar is the original human evil deity, and not even the most powerful at that. What puzzles me about Toril 3rd ed is that human deities become universal, even the history of the world creation gets rewritten -- all to cut Toril away from the rest of the multiverse and justify 'special' powers of deities such as Mystra and Shar (and their minions), while diminishing or completely ignoring the 'universal' and demi-human powers like Corellon or Lloth. I find the idea of Shadow Weave completely absurd -- it implies that humans as a race have 2 major deities (both female for some reason !) that control all magic of the world, and while human goddess of strife and vengeance (Shar's portfolio is rather dubious btw -- why is she any more 'important' than say Bane?) can recreate her own version of the Weave, Corellon the major deity of magic in the multiverse has no say over the Weave at all. The non-human races are forced to worship 'human' goddesses to get their favor, and humans are not even the eldest or magical race?!
#19
taza
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Posted 27 September 2004 - 12:10 PM
Wrong. Shar is the original evil deity of all Toril.
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#20
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Posted 27 September 2004 - 01:04 PM
Wrong. Shar is the original evil deity of all Toril.
Excuse me but Shar is 'human only' goddess. No demi-human worship human gods and Shar is not listed in the 'Elven' or "Halfling' or 'Dwarven' pantheon section of any sourcebook I have. True, the 3 rd ed made changes to the history of Toril creation to make it sound as if Shar is a universal deity, that does not explain the fact that other races don't recognise human version of creation and do not worship her, and yet have access to magic and sometimes shadow magic... I shall post a quote from my favorite source when I get home.
