10 replies to this topic

[fallen_demon]

2 questions:
1) In the time of troubles, only part of a diety worshiped on multiple worlds would have been brought down to the walk the earth, right? If they died, would they rejoin the rest of themselves, or would the god permanetly loose that part of their power.
2) Is their ranking (whether their a lesser, intemediate or greater power) based on their total power on all the worlds their worshiped or just the given world?

[Awake]

obviously i'm stupid, and off topic, but how did the gods die when they were forced to walk the earth. It doesn't make any sense to me.

[Zandilar]

Heya,

2 questions:
1)  In the time of troubles, only part of a diety worshiped on multiple worlds would have been brought down to the walk the earth, right?  If they died, would they rejoin the rest of themselves, or would the god permanetly loose that part of their power.

This is one of those paradoxical situations... What probably happened is that Lolth's avatar was sent to Toril, and the rest of her "divinity" was barred from influencing Toril by Ao.

2)  Is their ranking (whether their a lesser, intemediate or greater power) based on their total power on all the worlds their worshiped or just the given world?

The power of a deity on Toril is determined by just their worshipers on Toril. Though Lolth on Toril and Lolth on Oerth are the same deity, there are actually differences between them and what power they possess - for instance, on Toril, Lolth has six domains, while on Oerth she only has four... But Lolth on Oerth will have extra salient divine abilities, because the Toril Lolth has had to use three of hers on extra domains, while Oerth Lolth only had to use one. (If that makes sense at all. )

[Zandilar]

Heya,

obviously i'm stupid, and off topic, but how did the gods die when they were forced to walk the earth. It doesn't make any sense to me.

During the Time of Troubles...

Mystra was killed by Helm when She tried to re-ascend to Her dwelling upon discovering who it was who had stolen the Tablets of Fate - unfortunately for Her, this was not enough to appease Ao's wrath, and Helm would not let Her by. This caused magic to begin to malfunction wildly.

Bane and Torm got into a big fight in Tantras, destroying parts of that city in the process. The result was that Torm prevailed over Bane, but died from His efforts.

Bhaal was destroyed by Cyric (who was a mortal at the time), who killed Him near the Boreskyr Bridge. Cyric later went on to murder Leria once he'd ascended.

Myrkul was destroyed by Midnight over Waterdeeps's harbour - some small amount of His essence remains behind in the form of a crown called the Crown of Horns.

Torm's life was restored to Him at the end of the Time of Troubles by Ao, because Torm had been fulfilling His Duty by defending Tantras from Bane. Cyric and Midnight  (who became the new Mystra) were "ascended to godhood" by Ao.

If a god was slain during the Time of Troubles, they were irrevokably killed. Only Ao could restore them to life. Several gods had plans to avoid that kind of fate, but not all of them succeeded. (Bane had previous planted the seed for His return in the form of His son Iyachtu Xvim - whom He destoryed in His return... According to the BG saga, Bhaal had gone about "sowing His wild oats" prior to the ToT in order to achieve something similar to Bane...)

I would imagine any deity that existed on many worlds would have their Toril aspect destroyed totally - unless Ao, for some reason, decided to let them return to Toril.

Edited by Zandilar, 17 September 2004 - 05:53 PM.

[fallen_demon]

Thanx

[NiGHTMARE]

thanks, that makes a lot more sense. But why wouldn't any of them think of, i don't know, hiding?

Because the gods were capable of sensing each other from miles away. Besides, of all the gods who died during the ToT, none of them would have had it in their nature to hide.

BTW in addition to what Zandilar said, the sword Cyric used to kill Bhaal and Leira turned out to be an avatar of Mask, though Cyric didn't find that out until over a decade later. So in fact, one god (i.e. Mask) was hiding during the ToT .

[Zandilar]

Heya,

BTW in addition to what Zandilar said, the sword Cyric used to kill Bhaal and Leira turned out to be an avatar of Mask, though Cyric didn't find that out until over a decade later.  So in fact, one god (i.e. Mask) was hiding during the ToT .

Yes, that's right. I forgot all about Godsbane - who also had the spirit of Kelemvor captive, and hid him from Cyric.

Sometimes, though, I have to feel sorry for Mask. He gets such a rough deal.

[Bane]

How would Cyric manage to kill Leira, she is in the plane of pandemonium right? Then if so wouldn't she have other pandemonium God allies to help her (or did Cyric make his home in that plane too). I know that it didn't explain in the avatar series the exact battle but I thought maybe someone knew from D&D, thanks.

[NiGHTMARE]

Leira's home plane was Limbo, and the only other deity of the Forgotten Realms human pantheon who resides there is Tempus, who certainly is no ally of Leira. How he lured Leira to Pandemonium I don't know, but none of the gods there - including Auril, Talos, and Garagos - would have been particularly inclined to help her either.

In fact, Leira's only allies were Azuth and Mask, and the latter betrayed her and sided with Cyric. As mentioned above, he actually possessed the very weapon that killed her.

None of the other deities were aware of what was happening (they're not onimpotent in planes other than their own), so Azuth wouldn't have known what was going on. Even if he had, there's no way even two Lesser Powers (Azuth and Leira) could have won against a Greater Power (Cyric).

Prince of Lies hinted that Cyric actually felt more akin to the plane of Pandemonium than he he did to his original home (as a deity) of Hades. When the inhabitants of Oinos (the city of the dead) revolted against him and he lost the portfolio of Death and the Dead, he moved to Pandemonium, where he still remains.


3rd Edition Forgotten Realms notes:

Limbo doesn't exist in 3E, and I can't find anywhere saying which of the planes Leira called her home while she was alive. I doubt she shared a plane with Tempus as she did in 2E, since in 3E Tempus resides in "Warrior's Rest" which doesn't really sound appropriate for Leira. My best guess would be the Plane of Shadow, along with Mask and Shar.

Similarly, Pandemonium doesn't exist in 3E either, so I can only assume Cyric killed her and later freed Kezef in either "the Barrens of Doom and Despair" or "Fury's Heart". Cyric's 3E home is "the Supreme Throne", Auril and Talos reside in "Fury's Heart", and Garagos in "Warrior's Rest" alongside the Red Knight, Tempus, Uthgar, and Valkur (all of whom Garagos hates with a passion, Tempus in particular).

Note that general 3E still uses the 2E planes, it's just the 3rd Edition Forgotten Realms that's different.

[Stone Wolf]

Limbo doesn't exist in 3E...

Similarly, Pandemonium doesn't exist in 3E either....

Well, there's another reason I'll never buy 3E books. Stop messing with everything!!!