33 replies to this topic

[Eclipse]

Does Shar have her own 'Weave'? If so, links to info plz.

- Played Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance II. The necromancer had a section in his magic book about shadow magic. Supposedly Shar's version of the weave, and the magic of the shadow lords...

[Archmage Silver]

Well, generally necromantics have spells that are considered "dark" but I don't know if Shar has her own Weave since Mystra is the highest goddess of the Art.

[MERLANCE]

Yes, Shar has her own weave, the Shadow Weave.

It amounts to (in 3rd edition) getting +1 caster level on all spells of certain schools, -1 caster level on all spells of certain schools, and the inability to cast spells with the [Light] descriptor. You permanently lose some wisdom when you take the feat that gives you access to the Shadow Weave, and you cant use the normal Weave after you do so. Maybe some other stuff, but those are the major parts.

And that is the Shadow Weave in short.

[Arachnos]

You only lose wisdom if you are'nt a follower of Shar.

but apart from that nitpick that's the shadow weave in a paragraph.

[Eclipse]

Well I was more interested in the fiction side of it, rather than stats... Would make a nice NPC or PC (finding a dusty old tome of shadow magic at cadlekeep and studying it in secret).

So... links?

[Andyr]

My NPCs Elai and Nasard are both Shadow Weave users.

[NiGHTMARE]

One thing to remember is that the Weave exists throughout almost the entire D&D universe, whereas the Shadow Weave can only be found in Realmspace and the demiplane of Shadow.

In other word, if a Shadow Weave user travels to another plane or elsewhere in the Prime, he won't be able to cast any spells.

[Andyr]

Are you sure that is the case? In 3E FR, the cosmology is different so I got the impression the Shadow Weave would work everywhere.

[NiGHTMARE]

As far as I know, the gods still don't have any power anywhere other than in Faerun or their home plane.

BTW I'm reading through Prince of Lies at the moment, and the revised cosmology means parts of the novel couldn't have actually happened - the gods couldn't have imprisoned Kezef the Chaos Hound in Pandemonium, and Cyric couldn't have journeyed there to free him, because with the advent of 3E Pandomenium never existed from the perspective of the Forgotten Realms. Oops.

If only they had the cosmology alter as part of some major event, rather than simply make it a retcon...

[Andyr]

Yeh, sux a bit.

I am pretty sure, from the Wizards boards, that Shadow Weave magic is ruled to work anywhere - it's not meant to be a disadvantage compared to normal Weave.

[The Masked Marionette]

Yeah, I don't recall the Shadow Weave section in the FR Campaign Setting actually mentioning anything specifically negative (besides only being able to use the Shadow Weave and not the Weave). The main point about it that sticks in my mind is that areas of dead magic don't affect it because, of course, that's where there's problems with the Weave.

Character-wise I can't think of any points, but history-wise I believe Shar made the Shadow Weave as an answer to the Weave because Mystra had chosen to ally with Selune over Shar (fool!).

...I could find out more, but I'm at college at the moment so I don't have the campaign setting with me. Might mention it in Faiths and Pantheons too, but I don't think so.

[Stone Wolf]

As far as I know, the gods still don't have any power anywhere other than in Faerun or their home plane.

BTW I'm reading through Prince of Lies at the moment, and the revised cosmology means parts of the novel couldn't have actually happened - the gods couldn't have imprisoned Kezef the Chaos Hound in Pandemonium, and Cyric couldn't have journeyed there to free him, because with the advent of 3E Pandomenium never existed from the perspective of the Forgotten Realms. Oops.

If only they had the cosmology alter as part of some major event, rather than simply make it a retcon...

Simple answer--the people of the Realms are stupid and they're getting things wrong.

[LordKableNikon]

Ok the shadow weave as pointed out is found by Shar a neutral evil diety, in which it goes back all the way to the fall of of Nethril...
During the Nethril era there was the diety Mystara no mistra... in which there was magic that was like the horrid wilting spell(level was more or less a mere level 5 spell, magic was everywhere and it was being overused(peasants had magic spells at will) spells that made flying cities fly indefinately was an example of level 8 spells. What happened was the normal weave was overused and mystara had to saccrifice her divine essence and commit suicide to hold the weave in tact, and yes Mistra has hold of the weave and can deny magic to all wizards but to deny magic to clerics of other dieties she'd have to deny magic to her own devotee's. Now shar has found the shadow weave and that weave is VERY unstable, but technically it could be used to cast the "forbidden magics" and Mistra could do NOTHING about the wizards who use the shadow weave from casting them. So a shadow adept who finds a spellbook from the fall of nethril that is still intact will be a VERY DEADLY foe indeed.
Now it is stated in one of the Faerun books that Mistra is willing to become a True Neutral Diety instead of the standard NG, and take control of the shadow weave.
The problem with the shadow weave, is like the problem with AOL internet, you never know when it will crash....

[Archmage Silver]

As I would see it: An archmage using the Weave (like me and Khelben ) would under normal circumstances have a higher chance of winning the mage duel than the archmage using the Shadow Weave, which could "crash" and leave the archmage defenseless against my or Khelben's attacks.

[LordKableNikon]

yes or you could risk the fact that the mage has a spell which you CAN NOT COUNTER for the fact it is the that the magic of nethril was much much more powerful thus causing the weave to crash because Thousands and Thousands of users, now a user of the shadow weave is very rare unless they are a sharran... (worshipper of shar) and the shadow weave may be unstable but shar will most likely keep it from crashing, thus khelben or even any other chosen of mystra can lose for that sheer fact, mystra doesn't allow certain magics to exist on her weave, while shar's weave any magic goes, so a mage who has a spellbook from nethril will kick the crap out of a normal weave user, when things like the 9th level spell meteor swarm on the normal weave, be something akin to a 7th level spell on the shadow weave(using nethril spells) What would be the equivilant to a person who found a 9th level nethril spell? Now if said mage could cast the 9th level spell it would kick the shit out of almost any mage for the sheer fact no mage can do anything about it... reason be
1) The chance of seeing a forbidden spell is incredibly rare (Mystra tried to take all the spellbooks and so forth of that era)
2) If seen by a forbidden spell, it would be totally unknown to the mages thus they wouldn't know what to do
3) it would be incredibly more powerful than known spells
4) Mystra couldn't say NO, to the spell from happening
5) The chance of "lower level" abjuration helping would be damn small.
But that being said, I will agree to archmage to a point
An archmage using the weave will more than likely win, but right when the an archmage who uses the shadow weave gets ahold of forbidden magics(deemed forbidden by mystra) then the archmage using the weave (like you and khelben) have a good chance of being completely boned over...

But as saying Mystra being said would rather be neutral and try and take control of the shdaow weave so magic like that could not exist period, and ACTUALLY be the true power behind the "art"
And that Talos is refuting her claim to wild magic, isn't helping her to look like the "true goddess of magic"

Edited by LordKableNikon, 02 October 2004 - 09:29 AM.

[Archmage Silver]

Talos has always been so disturbed and jealous, but still the others listen to him. Such blind trust or then they just don't want to give Mystra all the magic to control, since that would cause her power to grow by quite a bit.

[LordKableNikon]

Like it has been stated, all magic whether arcane or divine casted by cleric and wizards with the exclusion of sharran's go through the weave, so to she can turn off all magic done by wizards and all the clerics can still cast, but to keep clerics of opposite faiths from casting she has to deny ALL magic, but since Shar has control of the shadow weave, it would be a very very bad idea for basically only the sharran's and those who have "discovered" the shadow weave can cast magic at that point. To regulate magic was part of mystra's "greatness" but since the shadow weave is not under her control, makes things very difficult for a goddess of magic, sure talos has wild magic, but she can use the weave to turn it off... but not having the shadow weave under her control makes her not as versatile as people believe.

[Archmage Silver]

True, true. Mystra has always more arcane spellcasters than Shar is a fact too.

[NiGHTMARE]

The Weave didn't "crash" because there were too many magic-users.

One of the most powerful archwizards, Karsus, created and cast a spell called Karsus' Avatar. The only 12th level spell ever created, it was capable of stealing a god's portfolio (the things he or she was the god of, i.e. in Mystryl's case magic, the Weave, spellcasters, etc).

Karsus stupidly decided to target the spell at the one deity he shouldn't have - Mystryl. He was nowhere near ready for the sudden job of having to maintain and control the Weave, and it instantly started going haywire. The Netherese cities plummeted to the ground, though Shade was saved, thanks to the Princes of Shades' strong connection to the Shadow Weave (though they inadvertently ended up pushing the city into the Plane of Shadow in the process).

Mystryl still retained her divine essence, and managed to save the Weave, but at the expense of her own life. She passed on her powers to a mortal farm girl (name unknown), who would go on to become the first Mystra.

[Archmage Silver]

When Karsus tried to steal the control of the Weave and Mystryl sacrificed herself in order to save the Weave, did the Weave get weaker than the Shadow Weave or is it only by Mystra's restrictions why the spells are weaker for the users of the Weave?