150 replies to this topic

[Delvar]

Sounds cool cuv, but what I want to know is will the new npc be in the new version? It's good how you actually have a time limit, this will make fights much harder since people can't just get cast cheese spells rest cheese spells rest. Alas I guess my dwarf will have to fight this dracolich (how could he resist giving garren some pain)

[Quitch]

Cuv, could you clear something up for me?  Is Dasypus a living dragon or a draco-lich?

Dasypus is a living Cobalt Dragon. The whole plot is based around his elaborate scheme to get you to deliver the Holy Avenger sword so that he can use its pommel for his phylactery and complete the ritual he has begun with the cult to become undead. In the version you are testing, Dasypus is the Dracolich. Only the dracolich will have Lithify... living Dasypus does not possess this ability.

Now then... once Garren's dialog is in place you will understand better what is happening. Garren will have information for you concerning this dark ritual that Dasypus intends to perform. If you move quickly, you can catch the dragon before the ritual is complete and only be faced with an angry Cobalt Dragon... or if you delay, stop to rest, torture Garren... or otherwise screw around too long, then Dasypus will have had time to complete the ritual and use the Wish Ring to become a fully functional dracolich. So there is a bit of a real time limit here.

Cuv

Don't forget freeing the knights!

[Michel]

I am going to put myself to the unlimited test I am going to solo through RTW with my FMT. On Core of course but i might switch to insane to see if it makes much difference

[Rathwellin the Bard]

Just make sure your solo guy has some way to avoid all those maze spells from the Infernal Guards. MR will not help nor is there a saving throw allowed and once you are mazed the game is over. As far as I can tell, unmodded, being a Beserker, the scroll of protection from magic, and the spell immunity spell is about it.

[Cuv]

Sounds cool cuv, but what I want to know is will the new npc be in the new version? It's good how you actually have a time limit, this will make fights much harder since people can't just get cast cheese spells rest cheese spells rest. Alas I guess my dwarf will have to fight this dracolich (how could he resist giving garren some pain)

Yes, you should see the new NPC in the next build. The NPC is actually in the version you have, but you cannot get to "it":P

I felt that a real time limit was something that was missing from BG2. There were time limits, but they didnt mean anything... you could go whenever you wanted to finish quests. Not in RTW... the clock will be ticking... move quickly and efficiently to face only the Cobalt.

Cuv

[Cuv]

I am going to put myself to the unlimited test I am going to solo through RTW with my FMT. On Core of course but i might switch to insane to see if it makes much difference

That is do-able.... if you are high enough level. Your biggest problem aside from the Infernal Guard having a 30% chance of casting Maze... will be the traps. There are a few nasty ones: Maze, Imprisonment, and Dire Charm... that could end your game. Hehe.... of course, Petrification will end your game too if you fail a save against the gauths or the dracolich.

Cuv

[Michel]

I'll take proper precautions
I got myself a nice Mace of Disruption waiting for the undead.

Edit;

Infernal guards.......There is only one word for them....TOUGH!

[Cuv]

Infernal guards.......There is only one word for them....TOUGH!

The next build should see them become a little easier. I have removed their ability to see invisible... they will cast True Sight, but you should be able to drink a potion to go invisible again to hack them to pieces. They actually fall rather easily... but can do alot of damage to your party, quickly.

If they are still considered TOUGH, then I will consider removing some. But I really dont want to change their scripts or creature files any more... they are meant to be tough.

Cuv

[Delvar]

Hmm you say the npc is in the mod guess I have to try to clua them in for 20 or so hours better get some coffee. How much time will you have, and when will the clock start? It will be a real challenge to have to get to dasy if you only have like 10 minutes to hack through infernal guards and junk. Does it matter which version you fight? I don't know if a dracolich has other powers the cobolt doesn't, guess I should pull out the ad&d big book of monsters.

[Rathwellin the Bard]

The next build should see them become a little easier.   I have removed their ability to see invisible... they will cast True Sight, but you should be able to drink a potion to go invisible again to hack them to pieces.  They actually fall rather easily... but can do alot of damage to your party, quickly.

If they are still considered TOUGH,  then I will consider removing some.  But I really dont want to change their scripts or creature files any more... they are meant to be tough.

Cuv

We talked about these guys a little in the last forum, but might as well mention it again.

The biggest problem with these guys is that they can all cast Maze. In every loss except for one I've had to them this has been the cause.

I'll try to give a good example. When I CLUAed my way out of Dasypus' lair I landed in a room with 6-8 of them. Keldorn had a chance to summon a Diva & move into melee range before he was mazed. My main PC was mazed at about the same time. Anomen took so much damage that first round that he suffered moral failure & was running around utterly useless. Then the Diva got mazed right after that. So in two rounds half of my party, including my best two melee characters & best spellcaster, were out of action as was a major sommoned creature. The rest of the group got chewed up fast after that & right before Anomen died my PC popped back in. Miriaculously he was not mazed again (this is how every other unsucessful battle has ended), but was instead cut to pieces since all the remaining IGs were able to focus on him.

The thing about Maze is that there is no save & there is no MR, & very few defenses. Sure you have baddies like the demi litches, elder orbs, and a few others like the guy with the demon in Sundalasar, but in general you have no more than ONE monster who can maze and either he doesn't have enough spells to get your whole party, or he is a single foe that you can limit your party's exposure to.

That's not the case with the Infernal Guards. First off there are a lot of them in most encounters and secondly they are in a lot of places. Its not like this is an isolated encounter in RTW where the maze might make an interesting challenge.

This ability to cast maze is what makes the current ability to see the invisible so bad & just changing out to true seeing is not going to fix it. If they couldn't cast maze then the see invisible would be perfect. As is though invisiblity is one of the only common protections against maze & true seeing will still allow them to nail party members with maze fairly easily.

I don't mind them using True Seeing or innate see invisible ... if they can't maze ... or don't do it against invisible targets. If you could script the innate see invisible IGs to not use maze when target state = invisible then thing would be fine IMO. They could still melee the invisible opponents but the party would still be able to use spells like mass invisibility or improved invisibility to avoid getting mazed to death. IMO this would be better than true seeing.

Another alternative would be to take maze away from the rank & file IGs & save it for some kind of special IG leader types.

...

As for the melee damage I am still amazed at how fast they chew up party members. Even packs of Fire Giants didn't do as much damage in a singe round as packs of these guys do. Somehow that seems a bit out of whack.

[Xyx]

I also think it's a bit cheezy to specially prep a party based on foreknowledge.  Sure *I* know exactly what is coming sometimes & could protect my party, but what kind of roleplaying is that?  I have to admit that I do occasionally special prep for battles, but I avoid it when possible.  I feel much better about walking in cold with no prep or summons and wacking Firkraag & his pet mage than I if I summon a lot of monsters & then cast cloudkill offscreen or something.  Of course 'real men' sometimes take real beatings after trying things this way.  

Both RP wise & the first time folks fight Dasy they will have no clue & the Lithify will be a big suprise.

Very true, and it is good you do some 'honest' testing.

Just make sure your solo guy has some way to avoid all those maze spells from the Infernal Guards.  MR will not help nor is there a saving throw allowed and once you are mazed the game is over.  As far as I can tell, unmodded, being a Beserker, the scroll of protection from magic, and the spell immunity spell is about it.

You sure MR won't stop it?

Anyway, the point of Maze is to put people "on hold" so you have less to deal with. Putting the last person "on hold" is near-useless from a PnP view since you just stand about waiting for them to return. Maze shouldn't be used when there's only one person left, and we can easily fix that. Sure, it's good to maze a single tough enemy and do some prep while he's out (Abazigal, anyone?), but the Infernal Guard don't do much prepping.

[Rathwellin the Bard]

You sure MR won't stop it?

Positive.

Anyway, the point of Maze is to put people "on hold" so you have less to deal with.  Putting the last person "on hold" is near-useless from a PnP view since you just stand about waiting for them to return.  Maze shouldn't be used when there's only one person left, and we can easily fix that.  Sure, it's good to maze a single tough enemy and do some prep while he's out (Abazigal, anyone?), but the Infernal Guard don't do much prepping.

Mostly I agree, however when maze is used to take out all of a party's melee guys (and this has happened to me several times) and then the IGs swarm the mages then it is a lot more than just an "on hold" type of spell. Even if the "last" party member is not mazed then what is to stop that group of 6+ IGs from mazing 5 party members & killing the last one easily since he has no party support? Sure the solo folks will breath a bit easier, but anyone who plays counting on party support is out in the cold.

Don't get me wrong, there was a battle or two that I might have pulled out save for the last PC getting mazed, but overall I just think that having so many maze casting mosters in groups all over RTW is game busting. Limited numbers of maze casting monsters is fine. Maze only used by groups in a limited number of encounters is fine (King Strom for instance), but maze as a casual spell used by groups of monsters in "throwaway" encounters is too much.

[Cuv]

I rechecked the Infernal Guard scripts, and they have a 30% chance to cast either Maze, Flesh to Stone or Disintigrate. For some reason they are casting Maze more often than the other two spells. Maze is third on the list of possibles. I think the reason is that there is another block in the script with a choice of spells that also includes Maze... I will substitute another spell in that spot and see what they do.

I'm fairly sure that MR stops Maze. My PC has very high MR and has never been Mazed... even on the Maze traps.

Edit: I found out why. There is a bug in the script... or rather an oversight. They are scripted to cast Greater Malison, Lower Resist AND Maze during their initial spell blast when an enemy is sighted. When they can see invisible, they just unload on the nearest enemy with all three. In groups of 3 or 4, that makes them game killers. Any suggestions on a third spell they could cast in place of that Maze? Here are all the spells that they currently can cast:

Stoneskin
Improved Haste
Vocalize (silenced)
True Sight (invisible)
Death Spell (summons)
Disintegrate
Flesh to Stone
Maze
Magic Missile
Chain Lightning
Greater Malison
Lower Resist

Cuv

[Quitch]

Has anyone got a PC with an intelligence score lower than seven? If not, could someone whip themselves up a save with one, please. I need to know that at least one person gave all the thick talk a whirl.

[Delvar]

Sorry my peeps are smart. I'll make me a half orc warrior tonight though and give him 3 int. I think the infernal guards should have some type of cure/drain spell instead of maze. This will make them much harder. Add maybe cloudkill, mislead, one or two stun spells,some buffing spells, maybe a mantle, and to make them even harder add a whirlwind. You should make it so they hit hard, but don't have that much hp and ac. Are you guys doing anything to the weights, they really really need to be stronger.

[Delvar]

Well I just beat the cobolt dragon with my cripple party of
me lv28 pally the sword of torm you get from king s
Sarvvy his +4 sword of chaos lv33
Minsc lv33 sword of grief+5
Anomeon(sp) mace/war hammer +3

I was fighting my way to cobolt dragon when my first lost came Immy was chuncked, then later Korgon to was chuncked making me yell out NOOO since Immy was the one with stone to flesh. Anyway I got into cobolt room, a gauth on my tail. I got a deva up before timestop went off. The dragon started wailing on anomy, then used his gaze on Minsc making my party even smaller. Ano survived, and he quickly ran away and got a heal. I started beating the gauth while sarvvy made the beast chase his tail. Soon my party was fightning the dragon again. Once his prot spell went down whirlwinds slammed into him. He used wing junk and backed Sarvy up into the wall and started killing him. My pally, and my new earth prince were able to save him quickly. Still no backstab, and all he did this time was attack no potions or anything.
When I was fighting king boy he cast one or two magic missiles, then did nothing while I was casting my spells on him. The guards were easy just run in back and forth back and forth.

[Cuv]

I think the infernal guards should have some type of cure/drain spell instead of maze. This will make them much harder. Add maybe cloudkill, mislead, one or two stun spells,some buffing spells, maybe a mantle, and to make them even harder add a whirlwind. You should make it so they hit hard, but don't have that much hp and ac. Are you guys doing anything to the weights, they really really need to be stronger.

Okay... sending Quitch my modifications for the Infernal Guard. Here are the changes:

Removed See Invisible
Added True Sight
No Maze at all. Replaced with a WIZARD_BLINDNESS
Added WIZARD_SLOW to their initial spell attack
Reduced their attacks per round to one (1)
Lowered their physical resistance to 20 across the board
Lowered MR to 30
You can disrupt their spellcasting with missile weapons

They still do heavy damage to unprotected party members with their 2handed swords... but its a standard +2 Two-Handed Sword... nothing special about it, no extra bonuses. They are hasted afterall:p If you want to try them out and give me your feedback, send me a PM or write me so that I can arrange to send you the new files. I find little difference in their melee capability; 4 still managed to kill my entire party in the pocket plane while testing (without prep).

I wasnt planning on altering the Wights. I *could* let them drain 1 level per hit... as that is in the rules. They are mostly fodder... and are easily chunked by a decent cleric. I think making them harder will put this mod over the top in difficulty... the vamps, Infernal Guard and the undead beholders are already tough.

Cuv

[Quitch]

Either they're Wights or they're not. You change difficulty through the number of monsters and their type, not by removing abilities they should have. I mean, why not have every monster as a dragon, then simply give them 10 HP?

[Rathwellin the Bard]

The changes to the Infernal Guards looks good so far. Just out of curiosity what did you have their attacks per round set to before?

As for wights ... level drain is fine IMO. Not unbalancing largely because they are chunkable so easily.

[Cuv]

The changes to the Infernal Guards looks good so far. Just out of curiosity what did you have their attacks per round set to before?

As for wights ... level drain is fine IMO. Not unbalancing largely because they are chunkable so easily.

Attacks per round for the Infernal Guard were set at 3. I see very little difference in the new ones regarding melee... they still hit hard and fast. You should find them a little less annoying for the next build. Let me know if they are too easy, and I can change them back.

Cuv