32 replies to this topic

[Bane]

Well you're told in BGII that Aran Linvail is the Shadowmaster so you assume that he is 'the big cheese' of the organisation, but, one of the shadow thieves is on the city council. Who is the real leader, is it the one on the council's seat or is it Aran? If it is the council member is Aran then just some kind of decoy.

Also if charname had sided with Bodhi and you killed Aran would it really matter to the organisation because their real leader is safe. Finally, could Bodhi actually have taken the shadow thieves when their power is sooo far reaching that it reaches into the depths of Amn's power hierachy?

thanx :thumb:

[SConrad]

The ultimate leader of the Shadow Thieves is the Grandmaster of Shadow, the commander of the Shade Council. The eight lesser members of the Shade Council, all of whom are Shades in title, act as the guildmasters of a particular sect of the Shadow Thieves in certain cities in Amn and Tethyr: Athkatla,Esmeltaran, Velen, Zazesspur, Myratma, and Riatavin.

The Shade Council also has two separate Shades for all foreign activities and intelligence. One is based in Saerloon and manages all intelligence in the Heartlands, and the Baldur's Gate Shade handles the guild information network for the Sword Coast beyond Amn. While these two Shades are members of the Shade Council, they are considered to be personal agents for the Grandmaster of Shadows.

Some major cities and areas where many foreigners gather for trade purposes have a Cloakmaster (a special, additional Shadowmaster) who coordinates any work or information passing between foreign powers and the guild. These Cloakmasters report only to the Shades of Saerloon or Baldur's Gate, though many give duplicate reports to the local Shade as a courtesy.

When a member of the hierarchy dies or is removed from power, his peers in the membership select a candidate from the lower echelons and raise him to a new status. A Grandmaster or other high-ranking member may attempt to influence the decision, but it is solely the decision of the Shadowmasters or Silhouettes to raise someone to their level. If the Grandmaster is removed from power, one of the Shades (chosen by a majority vote among them) is quickly elevated to that position, and he appoints his own replacement for his vacant Shade's seat.

(I can't take all credit. This was posted in the Khadion workroom by Ragnar.)

[Archmage Silver]

Quite interesting information. I just wonder how the Grandmaster of Shadow survives when his council knows who he is. There must be some upstarts who want to assassinate him and take his place (if major portion of the Shade Council agrees when they must vote for the new Grandmaster).

Edited by Archmage Silver, 05 September 2004 - 11:37 AM.

[Bane]

Well considering some of the other council members don't really know much about the others (a mage that directs the cowled wizards and a cleric of Liira) the shadow thief on the council really doesn't have much to worry, that and he's a lvl 4 wizard/lvl 20 thief who is 132 years old and looks like he's in his 30's

some info on the council is given in an earlier topic in this part of the forum.

[NiGHTMARE]

I believe Archmage Silver is referring to the Shade Council, not the Council of Six.

[Cryomancer]

Besides, to be powerful enough to be in charge of the whole thing, I'm sure he's more than capable of taking out his assassins.

[Archmage Silver]

Wouldn't change the outcome if the paladins started "a Holy War" against S T Corp. .

[Archmage Silver]

BG II did have many things wrong or missing.

[Bane]

BGII was very lame in staying true to D&D tbh

[Ragnar]

BG II did have many things wrong or missing.

Indeed, I have to laugh at how they did the map

[NiGHTMARE]

I don't think BG2's usage of the Shadow Thieves is wrong, it's just people's interpretations of how they used them that are wrong .

For example, to me it's obvious that Aran Linvail isn't the absolute leader of the Shadow Thieves even without knowing anything about pnp, because there's another Shadowmaster in the game. Okay, she turns out to be a fake Shadowmaster, but stilll...

[Feanor]

because there's another Shadowmaster in the game.

Who ?

[Archmage Silver]

I can't remember the name of the fake Shadowmaster but if you play through the thief guild quests you'll see.

[Bane]

I can't remember the name of the fake Shadowmaster but if you play through the thief guild quests you'll see.

you mean the girlfriend of Maevar who's actually the big cheese of the knight knives?- she suxord my boxorz

[Feanor]

Actually, while the Order of the Most Radiant Heart is taken from pnp (the Complete Paladin's Handbook), they're not in Athkatla in pnp. In fact, IIRC there's no mention of any paladin order having a chapter house anywhere in Amn in any of the relevant sourcebooks.

BTW, where does the order resides in official FR ?

[Archmage Silver]

Absolutely no idea but as you may know, the Order's paladins travel the Realms on their questing, like Ajantis.

[NiGHTMARE]

Actually, while the Order of the Most Radiant Heart is taken from pnp (the Complete Paladin's Handbook), they're not in Athkatla in pnp.  In fact, IIRC there's no mention of any paladin order having a chapter house anywhere in Amn in any of the relevant sourcebooks.

BTW, where does the order resides in official FR ?

As far as I know they don't exist anywhere in official FR. The product they - and several other Paladin orders - appear in is general AD&D, meaning DM's are free to place them wherever they see fit.

Of course there are plenty of other Paladin orders within official FR, such as the Vigilant Eyes of the Deity (Helm), Order of the Aster (Lathander), Order of the Golden Lion (Torm), Knights of the Merciful Sword (Tyr), Knights of the Mystic Fire (Mystra), Knights of the Ruby Rose (Sune), and so on. Though as I said, I'm pretyy sure none of them have chapter houses within Amn, but feel free to correct me .

[Feanor]

There is also the The Order of the Silver Heart (knightly order of Tempus, Helm, and Oghma : headquarters in Dragonspear Castle, and outposts in Mulmaster, Selgaunt, Suzail, Iriaebor, Baldur's Gate, Zazesspur, Calimport, Hlondeth, Arrabar, and Innarlith)

[fallen_demon]

so killing aran for bhodi serves no purpose.