97 replies to this topic

[Deathsangel]

I had this idea in my head already a long time, but now that I have seen it as a nice topic in mod ideas. I want to try and do this as extra stuff. If you start out as evil (with evil alignment). I want to change the persons (Jaheira and Minsc) that are in the cages at John Irenicus' his dungeon. Montaron and Xzar will be hard to program, but I know an idea with Tiax on how to change that.

I thought Shar-Teel would be nice since she swore alligiance after being defeated. Kagain can still be there for the money, but you already got Korgan to fill up that space. Eldoth might be nice with his lore and magic (probably no kit, if it must be one perhaps the skald).

But give me your opinion. Do you think it is a good idea? And which one would you like to be your travelling companion?

[Efreet]

Shar-teel for me. B)
Will there be Imoen as normal or will Tiax turn out to be a child of Bhaal?

[Thorium Dragon]

I'd say Shar-Teel and Tiax.

That sounds as close to the evil version of Jaheira and Minsc.

Strong, independant woman and charmingly crazy pal. :thumb:

[psiclops]

Hey Deathsangel... you guys were talking about this before I came, but I guess you refer to the idea I posted recently.

I will be too busy on the almost to be 'forumised' complaining mod, so go hard with this if you want to. I won't be working on it I don't think. People who have played more evil NPCs should be having large input, and I am not one!

[Deathsangel]

I'm going to try, but it will take a while before I'll start on it. First Kido and Ariena. After that I do not know what is going to be first.

P.s. Are we sure on Shar-Teel? I just thought of the fact that she might be to much like Ariena...

Edited by Deathsangel, 29 August 2004 - 03:43 AM.

[Deathsangel]

Shar-teel for me. B)
Will there be Imoen as normal or will Tiax turn out to be a child of Bhaal?

Yeah Immy will be there, it would be to much to code her out of the story. I won't say what I'm gonna do with tiax if he makes it.

[Deathsangel]

P.s. Are we sure on Shar-Teel? I just thought of the fact that she might be to much like Ariena...

If you fear that we may like the old BG characters more than the ones you created , then why did you ask in the first place?

Haha , no that isn't the problem. Hhmm... perhaps it is. Let me explain my problem .

I know that some people don't like Nalia, because she is too much of an Imoen clone. They both have a different background and so will Ariena and Shar-Teel. Even Kido can somewhat take the place from Xzar.

I will continue, if I make Shar-Teel, like in BG1Tutu to let her be a victim of rape, her reason to hate man. While Ariena is an orphan and hates anyone showing a sign on weakness. Both are strong women and a fighter. Shar-Teel is a fighter using swords (2 stars short-sword, 3 stars long-sword (in BG1)) and Ariena is Pitfighter, therefor she can't use ranged weapons except bolas (according to Ashes of Ember mod), but I'll change that to only sling. Ariena is proficient in everything, but especially in the flail, morningstar and halberd.

They both are a bit the like, though I personally do not mind that. I like Nalia as well. I also like the combo Tiax and Jaheira, because of I can code that you have these two if you are evil or chaotic neutral. If you are good you also don't receive two good travelling companions, but only one. So if ya keep Jaheira you are looking for another male travelling companion, however you don't need a spellcaster at that moment.
The combo Shar-Teel and Tiax however appeals to me more in game-play. However, that combo gives me second thoughts on Ariena & I coded already stuff for her. I think she will be cool and people are interessted in here, because of her dual nature. She is my baby... (that sounds a bit dorky though).
My favourite was always Xzar, but that means I have to encode an entire new mission to get into the harper stronghold. The combo Xzar and Montaron is also appealing however. The two persons for harper stronghold would be Minsc and Dynaheir than?
I am going to restart the poll and give possible combinations that I can code rather than one person. Makes it more easily. Please revote, sorry for trouble.

Edited by Deathsangel, 02 September 2004 - 01:50 AM.

[Deathsangel]

Thinking about it further I would say that the combo Montaron & Xzar could be the best as to gameplay. That they work for the Zhentarium I can magnificently work in the game. I still let Xzar ask for entrance so you can do the mini-quest to get in. It also brings no problems about Ariena and though Xzar and Kido are a like in person they are still quite different (more than Ariena and Shar-Teel). And I already had thought up an interjection between Xzar and Kido that can be expanded easily into banters. It also means I can get Montaron their and he was a good (if you look at stats) Halfling Fighter/Thief. Because I bring in an evil thief, you can only needed to download DIL in order to make an entire evil party including an evil thief. I'll put Jaheira outside at Hapers for any evil person still wanting to hire her, change the way she finds out that her Khalid is dead a bit, but still there. It will be harder to code, but more fun. I prefer this option, but since it will be a few months for I started working on this part we have some time to discuss .

[Deva]

Tiax and Shar-Teel would be nice. Xzar and Monty a close second. Perhaps Xan and Branwen for the neutral aligned player? (My final lineup; Xan, Branwen, Khalid, Jaheira, Immy, Me.)

[Deva]

Okay, I've been thinking about this, and come to this conclusion;

An evil party would probably have as staples, Korgan, Edwin, and Viccy.

That means another front line tank would be nice, to defend the mages, or help Korgan demolish stuff. Shar-Teel would be good for this. Shar - Teel might become redundant if the PC has a good fighter.

Edwin and Viccy are probably as much mage and priestess as any party would need, which might leave Tiax slighly redundant if it wasn't for the thieving skills. HOWEVER, if the PC happens to have thieving skills, then he becomes totally redundant, as Viccy and the PC both have his skills.

I have come to this conclusion:

If the PC is a wizard: Montaron and Shar-Teel should be in the cages.

If the PC is a rogue: Xzar and Shar-Teel should be in the cages

If the PC is a fighter: Tiax and Xzar should be in the cages.

If the PC is a cleric: Shar-Teel and Montaron/Xzar should be in the cages;.

This is my idea of how it should be to obtain a well balanced party. i don't know if this would be codable though.

[Deathsangel]

Okay, I've been thinking about this, and come to this conclusion;

An evil party would probably have as staples, Korgan, Edwin, and Viccy.

That means another front line tank would be nice, to defend the mages, or help Korgan demolish stuff. Shar-Teel would be good for this. Shar - Teel might become redundant if the PC has a good fighter.

Edwin and Viccy are probably as much mage and priestess as any party would need, which might leave Tiax slighly redundant if it wasn't for the thieving skills. HOWEVER, if the PC happens to have thieving skills, then he becomes totally redundant, as Viccy and the PC both have his skills.

I have come to this conclusion:

If the PC is a wizard: Montaron and Shar-Teel should be in the cages.

If the PC is a rogue: Xzar and Shar-Teel should be in the cages

If the PC is a fighter: Tiax and Xzar should be in the cages.

If the PC is a cleric: Shar-Teel and Montaron/Xzar should be in the cages;.

This is my idea of how it should be to obtain a well balanced party. i don't know if this would be codable though.

Though codeable as it is I won't do it that detailed cause it means I have to make a lot of NPC extra.

Ariena is also a good frontliner and thus can support Korgan. Even Zartran when finished can be used somewhat for this purpose.

I have no thief what so ever, except the pick pocket of Kido. Therefore Montaron is a good addition. He always travelled with Xzar, so it would be a shame to break them apart.

[Drasius]

BTW: I think Xar's battlecry in BGI is actually a quotation. Do you have any idea where it is from ?

From one of the people who worked on the atomic bomb program(manhatten Project) when the first test was conducted. The name escapes me at the moment.

[Hendryk]

I have no thief what so ever, except the pick pocket of Kido. Therefore Montaron is a good addition. He always travelled with Xzar, so it would be a shame to break them apart.

Don't forget that Xzar and Montaron are Zhents in BG1. If you import them, their first thought, on escaping Irenicus' dungeon in Ch 1, would be to report back to HQ. Well, that'd be Montaron's first thought. With Xzar you can never be too sure.

Anyway, you'd have to add enough to content to account for their following the PC despite/because of their Zhent commitments or allow for Zhent retribution if they've broken with that organization.

There's definite potential in a Zhent scenario; you might even get to recruit Galvery as a double-agent against the Harpers and kill Jaheira and Khalid when they try to expose him. I don't know if you intend that much extra content though. It sounds more as though you just want X&M around for party balance.

[Deathsangel]

I have no thief what so ever, except the pick pocket of Kido. Therefore Montaron is a good addition. He always travelled with Xzar, so it would be a shame to break them apart.

Don't forget that Xzar and Montaron are Zhents in BG1. If you import them, their first thought, on escaping Irenicus' dungeon in Ch 1, would be to report back to HQ. Well, that'd be Montaron's first thought. With Xzar you can never be too sure.

Anyway, you'd have to add enough to content to account for their following the PC despite/because of their Zhent commitments or allow for Zhent retribution if they've broken with that organization.

There's definite potential in a Zhent scenario; you might even get to recruit Galvery as a double-agent against the Harpers and kill Jaheira and Khalid when they try to expose him. I don't know if you intend that much extra content though. It sounds more as though you just want X&M around for party balance.

*spoiler* I did think about an infiltrator in the Harpers. He won't say anything if to anyone unless travelling with Montarton and Xzar as he is a sort of spy for the Zhents. He has been a haprer for 10 years, so no one expects him/her to do this, he still is Harper to be even more true. He just cares less in which affairs the Harpers should get to and therefor excepts payment from the Zhents in order to keep the Harpers away.

I could use Galvery, if just could remember who it was, haha ... humm perhaps I need to redo the quest in order to see who it is.

I never really got the reason for them to travel with you in BG1 besides the fact the Zhentarium wanted to. Their might be more explanation thanks to BG1TUTU, but I haven't played that mod.

I know that if I want to import those though it is going to be difficult in programming (which is also said in the poll). Another good combo might be that Montaron finally killed Xzar, broke with the Zhents, because he didn't liked to be bossed around and stayed around charname out of lack for anything else (and protection though he dare not say it) and the whole can filled by Keldoth or Tiax whatever... any suggestions... Already told they were welcome

[Hendryk]

BG1 and BG tutu have the same content. Tutu is simply BG1 converted to run on the BG2 engine.

Galvery is the leader of the Harpers in Athkatla. You find out more about him by doing the Jaheira romance in SoA.

In BG1 the Iron Throne had Tazok inform the mercenary caravan raiders that they were working for the Zhents, rather than the Iron Throne itself. Thus, whenever a raider was captured and interrogated, the dukes got one more (false) confirmation that the Zhents were responsible. Being blamed for something like this (when they hadn't even had the fun of doing it) annoyed the Zhents so they sent Xzar and Montaron to investigate. Obviously, though, the Zhents weren't all *that* concerned or they'd have sent more and more powerful investigators. So they just sent Xzar and Montaron who were supposed to report to some "superiors" who apparently did nothing more than hang out in an upstairs room in Baldur's Gate. All in all, not a very impressive showing for the Zhents but the Sword Coast is pretty far away from their main operations so all their better agents must've been elsewhere.

The easiest way to avoid too much programming is, if Xzar and Montaron are in the party, Jaheira automatically leaves. Then, simply add a line of to the poisoned man script so that it doesn't occur if either Xzar or Montaron is in the party. That way, the standard Harper plot would get skipped altogether. There are lots of different ways to go, depending on what you want to happen later in the game, but basically, that would do it.

[Deathsangel]

BG1 and BG tutu have the same content.  Tutu is simply BG1 converted to run on the BG2 engine.

Galvery is the leader of the Harpers in Athkatla.  You find out more about him by doing the Jaheira romance in SoA.

In BG1 the Iron Throne had Tazok inform the mercenary caravan raiders that they were working for the Zhents, rather than the Iron Throne itself.  Thus, whenever a raider  was captured and interrogated, the dukes got one more (false) confirmation that the Zhents were responsible.  Being blamed for something like this (when they hadn't even had the fun of doing it) annoyed the Zhents so they sent Xzar and Montaron to investigate.  Obviously, though, the Zhents weren't all *that* concerned or they'd have sent more and more powerful investigators.  So they just sent Xzar and Montaron who were supposed to report to some "superiors" who apparently did nothing more than hang out in an upstairs room in Baldur's Gate.  All in all, not a very impressive showing for the Zhents but the Sword Coast is pretty far away from their main operations so all their better agents must've been elsewhere.

The easiest way to avoid too much programming is, if Xzar and Montaron are in the party, Jaheira automatically leaves.  Then, simply add a line of to the poisoned man script so that it doesn't occur if either Xzar or Montaron is in the party.  That way, the standard Harper plot would get skipped altogether.  There are lots of different ways to go, depending on what you want to happen later in the game, but basically, that would do it.

I can see what you mean in the programming, but in BG1 Jaheira also doesn't leave if either of the two is in the party. However she won't be in the cages as Montaron and Xzar will be. I can leave Jaheira out all together or if I don't I need to program more, cause what would be the reason Jaheira would leave? That ain't nice I reckon... right?

[edit] Galvery is the guy that wants to kill you to get higher-up? That guy? Wouldn't be wise to use him I reckon if I leave the standard Harper plot in there, cause (say for instance it could) if you have Jaheira and Montaron and Xzar in there you will have to battle him. Don't reckon that Monty and Wacko would like that.

But once again we could do it otherwise by another combo Jaheira Montaron combo for instance leaves room over for the Harper way and just makes Montaron a run-away because of breakin contract and murder. If I do it like that it might also be more balanced in the way of one neutral character and one evil in stead of two. And Jaheira can be quite nice to have in the party.

Edited by Deathsangel, 12 September 2004 - 07:38 AM.

[Hendryk]

Actually, in Bg1, Jaheira-Khalid will fight Montaron-Xzar to the death something like ten days after the Nashkel mines are cleared out. They only tolerate each other that long because they are (quite accidentally) on the same side.

[Kish]

Jaheira and Khalid will fight Montaron and Xzar to the death at a random point when they're all in the party (or, rather, when Khalid is in the party with either Montaron and Xzar, or when Jaheira is in the party with Xzar). They don't wait for the mines to be cleared. The Iron Throne has been putting about that the Zhentarim are responsible for the things they've been doing, and Montaron and Xzar have been sent to clear their organization's good name. You can go through the whole Harper/Galvery plot without romancing Jaheira.