10 replies to this topic

[psiclops]

Quit Yer' Complaining  


Problem: NPCs complain +/ leave party the more you favour alignment extremes.


Solution 1: Deal.

Solution 2: Remove complaining.


Proposed Solution:

Neutral NPCs initiate a dialogue with CHARNAME shortly after they hit their threshholds, and together you agree that it'll be much better for everyone if they stop complaining all the time. Switch their complaining off, and replace it with their happy sounds.


Possible extension:

Evil or good NPCs can be reasoned, bargained, coerced, threatened into following the party into an alignment shift - they then stay in your party, and either complain or are happy (choose at install). This would have to initiate at the complaint stage too, to pre-empt the party break-up.


Reason for existence:

- A subtler complaint remover that uses the old sounds, and doesn't alter the mechanics by removing them entirely.
- Daily unanswered complaining makes no sense imho.


Potential problem:

Complaining is all or nothing by necessity  

Edited by psiclops, 25 August 2004 - 06:17 AM.

[SConrad]

You are aware that a happy-party component exists in the EoU?

It's not the same, but it stops NPC's from leaving/complaining.

[psiclops]

Yeah, that's what I meant by solution #2.

I'm hoping for something less brutal than cutting it. It's fair enough that the NPCs complain the way I see it. I think it would be nice to leave that in but, be to able to roleplay your way out of the sound-effects.

Complaining was intended to increase the roleplay value, but is just annoying.
The test for a CRPG feature should be:

1) Is it fun
2) Is it realistic

Complaining is realistic, incessant repetitive complaining isn't.
Listening to complaining is not fun.
Perhaps roleplaying out of the noises would restore the realism, and perhaps add the fun!

A good CHARNAME could try to explain to Jaheira that it is an historic and evil time, when good people everywhere, and even the state of things was threatened by powerful and power-hungry evil people, and that to stand against them was the only hope of even maintaining the balance.

An evil CHARNAME could point dismissively at the sickening state of co-operation and feigned harmony that causes cities, with all their pollution and corruption to expand into nature's territory, and threaten the old ways - perhaps the druidic orders themselves? "Look how corrupt your 'Harper friends' have become... I am sure of my destiny... see it as it is written."


I guess you see the difference. Turning them off one by one, possibly even just an interactive speech to the group?!

"Don't think me blind to the concern I see written on your faces; the nightly murmurings I hear confirm my fears. I don't see how we can continue in this fashion, when daily we must depend on each other to survive..." etc...

I'm too tired to write that, but it must be clearer now?

[SConrad]

I think it's an excellent idea.

I'd be happy to contribute with technical help, coding and ideas. Unfortunently, I have a lot on my plate atm, but I can surely spare some time...

[EDIT]

Evil or good NPCs can be reasoned, bargained, coerced, threatened into following the party into an alignment shift - they then stay in your party, and either complain or are happy (choose at install). This would have to initiate at the complaint stage too, to pre-empt the party break-up.

This is by far one of the best ideas I've heard in a long time. It makes it much more realistic.

[psiclops]

This is by far one of the best ideas I've heard in a long time

Woohoo!

Wow, thank you all so much, for this award...

I never expected to win this so I never wrote a speech, but... I have a list of names here... I mean of, excuse me *giggle* all the people I'd like to thank... (read: speech)... Oh wow, this is such a surprise...

I can't take all the credit and this idea never have been possible without Canada and Sir Clive Sinclair, J.R.R.Tolkien and Christopher Tolkien Incorporated... I'd like to thank Talos for buying my soul - I got a real good deal for it after all I've done... And to Gary Gygax, a true pioneer, a visionary man. If I hadn't stumbled on that famous tome, "Writing your own Role-playing Game", where would a be today... I love you Gazza... Love...

but most of all... to my hideous bride, Jaheira the banshee, without whose incessant complaining and indecipherable character none of this would possible - I owe this best idea heard for a long time award to you. Love to hate ya babe...


Keep that talk up and I'm a loyal slave for life SConrad B)

[SConrad]

Heh...

Anyways, if you're serious with this, I suggest you ask for an own forum for this mod. It's a very good idea, IMO, and I'd be happy to contribute, as I said.

[psiclops]

I need a morally defensible reason to skip my lectures, so I'm serious...

And I want to try to like to 'like' Jaheira.
There's gotta be something in there.
Now that I have evidence she can be liked by an Aerie-liker like.

I would never turn down the offer of help, especially from anyone more skilled and experienced with how to do it. Even if I just filched the tools I'd be building stuff on the work of places like this, so I am putty in your collective hands so to speak.

Anyway, I understand perfectly. I am to go to the docks at night...

[Lady LeFay]

Good work -- the only reason I don't tend to keep Jaheria in my party is
A. the bugs in her romance quest (Fixed by patches)

B. The complaining.

Of course there's the C: I want to use someone else/had enough healers but that doesn't count in this thread.

[Immortality]

How compatible will this be with other mods? Dealing with the NPCs sound indeed nice, i even like the idea of blackmailing and threatening, but... uhm... compatibilities, plz?

Conrad: To-do list grows!!

[psiclops]

Hi Immortality!

You really do have a very nice avatar (as you know).

Thanks for your interest in this. SConrad's the better man to answer your technical compatiblity question, but I can assure you that it was one of many issues on the agenda from the start.

I'll give you the 'salesman doesn't really know' line, and say that we will endeavour to make this mod compatible with everything we can.

If it gets to the stage where all or most of the Bioware NPCs are done and it works well, then perhaps we could get add-in conversations done for other NPCs (the dialogue is not substantial for one NPC - but it's difficult subject matter, so it's not to be asked lightly I guess).

TCs? Where this would need to be ordered at install? I envisage just a standard WeiDU update. Don't know yet. Compatibility with the Baldurdash fixpacks must be possible to proceed as I see it. I'm sure we'd all like to see it become as indispensable.

As soon as we know, you know. Unless it's a secret...


This is in the ideas and planning stage still folks; though Conrad and I are both ultra-committed to working hard when we have the time, getting this finished, and getting it right. Much more info ASAP! There should be plenty of opportunity for others to get involved too if you're keen.

Once we know what people think this mod shouldn't be able to do, and have covered a bunch of weird stuff for each NPC, we can get cracking.

Keldorn:

Can he be turned to the dark side?
Would he become a fallen-paladin?
Could he still be in the service of the radiant heart?
Does he like his eggs over-easy or hard-boiled?

People will have some great ideas, and maybe some strong views on how to approach the Bioware NPCs, and we can't wait to see them!

Edited by psiclops, 28 August 2004 - 03:39 AM.

[SConrad]

Conrad: To-do list grows!!

How compatible will this be with other mods?

Seriously, don't you know me well enough to know that I'll do everything I can possibly do to make it compatible with as much other mods as possible.

Yes, it'll be a weidu-mod. Of course.

The only thing I'm a little worried about is the banter-packs, but to be honest, I don't think they'll interfere with eachother. This mod triggers dialogues because of reputation.

I think I'll throw in a Virtue-check as well. It is, after all, more logical that NPC's would break due to virtue than reputation. I have to talk to Sim about that, to make sure that it doesn't interfere.