85 replies to this topic

[Eclipse]

So... While Shadow Magic would be really handy if you were traveling to exotic planes. It'd struggle to cast higher than level 4 spells in BG?

[Stone Wolf]

Well, using unusual magic on the other Planes tends to attract the attention of the natives--demon lords, gods, etc. They have a nasty habit of kidnapping the caster and prying the secrets of the magic out of them. After that, they either let the mage go with or without a warning never to return, or kill the mage.

[Archmage Silver]

Well, using unusual magic on the other Planes tends to attract the attention of the natives--demon lords, gods, etc. They have a nasty habit of kidnapping the caster and prying the secrets of the magic out of them. After that, they either let the mage go with or without a warning never to return, or kill the mage.

It usually goes just like this if we aren't talking about some Grand Master of Magic etc. etc. who would have the power to hold off some creatures like demon lords.

[Stone Wolf]

Demon lords can be fought, but gods canot (well, not realistically). I was just pointing out a danger.

[Archmage Silver]

Demon lords can be fought, but gods canot (well, not realistically). I was just pointing out a danger.

Well, actually gods can be destroyed by powerful mortals with the weapons or tools able to hurt a god. Raistlin Majere almost succeeded in destroying the Black Queen Takhisis and taking her place. Not that it would have done him much good, as you know if you read the books.

[Stone Wolf]

I guess it's possible, but you'd need so many powerful (and possibly deity-created) items and magic... I mean a good can kill you with a thought normally, and you can't be brought back from that! They can also make magical items useless, and prevent you from casting spells.

The only good place to fight a deity is at the base of the Spire in the Outlands, because no magic works (including deific powers). Then it's just a slugfest. Of course, you'd have to get the true form of a deity there...

[Archmage Silver]

True, true. There is an another way still; some supreme archmage with some god backing him up could easily challenge a god.

[Stone Wolf]

Yeah, but in that case the archmage is really a proxy of the Power that's backing him. The archmage on his own would probably be toast.

[Archmage Silver]

Yhm. I won't say anything to that, knowing the power of certain mages.

[NiGHTMARE]

There's no way even Elminster could go head-to-head with a god on it's home plane and hope to survive.

Demipowers' avatars are usually somewhere between level 40 (the weakest I could find was Gwearon Windstrom, who's "only" level 39) and level 70. Greater Powers' avatars are usually around level 80 (and mega powerful ones like Bane and Shar are 110!), plus they can have 10 of the things running around at once.

Also, don't forget that they're more than likely to have their most powerful minions helping them out (and even if they don't at first, they're bound to summon them if it looks like the battle's going poorly) as well.

To put it in perspective, imagine pitting CHARNAME at the start of BG1 against Mellisan and her allies from Ascension...

[Stone Wolf]

The Raistlin storyline is cool, but character vs Power is just unrealistic. Maybe, just maybe, a powerful group or individual can beat an avatar, but the Power itself? Nightmare had a good point: If fiends can summon in creatures as powerful as they are, what can Powers do?

[NiGHTMARE]

Ah yes, that's another point: almost all deities have other deities as allies (IIRC the only two who don't are Cyric and Xvim). So if by some amazing effort you manage to wear down the deity's defenses and kill all his super powerful minions, there's a very good chance one or more other deities will suddenly teleport in.

If by some chance that is equal to the number of decimal places of pi to one you somehow manage to beat the new set of deities, they too have allied deities who will join the fray.

As an example, lets say you decide to take on Gweaeron Windstrom. He's the weakest of the demipowers, and his home plane is Faerun itself so you won't even have to do any plane travelling. One you kill all the exceptionally skilled archers who he'll summon in and start to beat his level 39 avatar to a bloody pulp, then Arvoreen, Baervan Wildwanderer, Lurue, Fenmarel Mestarine, Mielliki, Shaundakul, Nobanion and Solonor Thelandira could all chose to help out their friend.

Lets say for the sake of argument only Nobanion and Shialla, who're also relatively weak deities, came along. After you'd dealt with them, Balador, Chauntea, Eldath, Ferrix, Sharess, Silvanus, Tapann, Torm, Tree Ghost, Tyr, and Water Lion would all have course join the epic battle, and Lurue and Mielliki would both have an extra reason to make an appearance.

Pretty soon you'd have pretty much every single good and neutral (and possibly even a couple of evil ones) aligned deity in the Forgotten Realms out for your blood.

[Stone Wolf]

I think even opposing deities might try and stop you, since killing a Power sets a precedent that they would likely find disturbing. They're used to be on the top of the food chain, and how would you like it if chickens starting hunting people?

[Archmage Silver]

Ah yes, that's another point: almost all deities have other deities as allies (IIRC the only two who don't are Cyric and Xvim).

Hmm... Cyric. Let's put him on my list...

[NiGHTMARE]

Well, he will have 10 avatars who're Thief 35 / Mage 21 / Cleric 20 / Fighter 8...

[Stone Wolf]

Ya know, I just want to see that battle.

[Archmage Silver]

[SELFPROMOTION] I shall squash him like a bug! [/SELFPROMOTION]
Oh, and I probably bring my friends too, you know, Fizban and the folks...

Edited by Archmage Silver, 30 September 2004 - 09:49 AM.

[Stone Wolf]

You'd better bring a tac nuke too.

[Archmage Silver]

Maybe I just use some kender to steal some god's portfolio, you never know, it might work .

[Cyric]

Hmm... Cyric. Let's put him on my list...

You foolish mage! I will bake cookies from your soul and drink wine from your blood! ...with other words I accept the challenge B)