85 replies to this topic

[Feanor]

Why wizards receive level 10 spells, although Mystra stripped level 10 spells (and above 10 also) from spellcasting after Karsus did that mess ? It's only in BG2 or in AD&D too ?

[raptor]

Its bg2....

they have just called it level 10 spells btw, it more suposed to be equalent of HLA, but just wanabe spellcasting.

level 9 is max by decree of mystra.

else we would have that entire Karsus crsis over again.. nasty stuff...

always thought it was funny to imagine if level 9 is max now, and there have existed greater spells before, the max was the one level 13 spell created in old Netheril. So if WISH is level 9, i wonder what a level 10, 11 or 12th level spell is

[NiGHTMARE]

From Netheril, Empire of Magic:

When Mystryl reincarnated herself?this time as Mystra?she used the form of a beautiful peasant girl learning the basics of cantra magic but with the capacities for archwizardry. Her first priority was to recreate the weave of magic. This time, she made magic follow a few more rules, and no spell above 10th level would function. By the time she was completed, she was able to save only three of Netheril?s floating cities; the rest were utterly destroyed. These three?Anauria, Asram, and Hlondath?were high enough above the ground to survive. The cities safely landed, and the survivors stumbled away from the cities in shock.

So according to that, 10th level spells (also known as True Dweomers) are perfectly legal - it's just that extremely few wizards ever become powerful enough to cast them.

BTW, Karsus' spell was "only" 12th level .

Edited by NiGHTMARE, 06 August 2004 - 07:23 AM.

[Feanor]

BTW, Karsus' spell was "only" 12th level .

And it was the single spell of level 12 ever created. It was designed to still the powers of a deity and Karsus was so dumb, that he chosen for that Mystryl, the goddess of magic. Level 13 spells never existed.

BTW, Nightmare, so Mystra is just Mystryl reborn ?

[NiGHTMARE]

There have been three goddesses of magic: Mystrl, Mystra, and Midnight.

IIRC Mystryl came into being either at or shortly after the creation of the world of Aber-Toril. Mystra was originally a mortal peasant girl with the potential to become an archwizard, whom Mystryl granted her essence, portfolio and much of her personality to when she sacrificed herself to save the weave. Midnight was also once a mortal, who was granted Mystra's portfolio (but not her personality) by Ao at the end of the Time of Troubles, afterwards changing her name to Mystra.

Edited by NiGHTMARE, 06 August 2004 - 08:56 AM.

[Bane]

What was the Karsus crisis (if the story is not too long to tell and someone doesn't mind telling it)

When the Netheril fell because magic dissappeared for a short amount of time was that because Mystrl recreated the weave?

What level is prismatic sphere?

What alignment was Mystrl?

If Mystra was LN and Midnight is NG then why would Kelemvor be a slave to his portfolio?

If charname became a god at the end of ToB would he have any power (he has no followers) and could he be good (with murder as a portfolio this would be hard)?

Sorry for so many questions

[BobTokyo]

If charname became a god at the end of ToB would he have any power (he has no followers) and could he be good (with murder as a portfolio this would be hard)?

According to Bioware's interpretation, Bhaal had the portfolio of Death, the translation from life to afterlife, not Murder. Bhaal simply chose to emphasize murder. Charname would have Death, and could take the role of Merciful Death or Death of the Wicked if he chose; Kelvemore would have "The Dead".

For in-game ref:

7335:
History of the Dead Three:  'KNUCKLEBONES, SKULL BOWLING, AND THE EMPTY THRONE'

In ages past there was but one god of strife, death, and the dead, and he was known as Jergal, Lord of the End of Everything.  Jergal fomented and fed on the discord among mortals and powers alike.  When beings slew each other in their quest for power or in their hatred, he welcomed them into his shadowy kingdom of eternal gloom.  As all things died, everything came to him eventually, and over time he built his power into a kingdom unchallenged by any other god.  Eventually, however, he grew tired of his duties for he knew them too well.  Without challenge there is nothing, and in nothingness there is only gloom.  In such a state, the difference between absolute power and absolute powerlessness is undetectable. 

During this dark era, there arose three powerful mortals - Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul - who lusted after the power Jergal wielded.  The trio forged an unholy pact, agreeing that they would dare to seek such ultimate power or die in the attempt.  Over the length and breadth of the Realms they strode, seeking powerful magic and spells and defying death at every turn.  No matter what monster they confronted or what spells they braved, the three mortals emerged unscathed at every turn.  Eventually the trio destroyed one of the Seven Lost Gods, and they each seized a portion of his divine essence for themselves. 

The trio then journeyed into the Gray Waste and sought out the Castle of Bone.  Through armies of skeletons, legions of zombies, hordes or noncorporeal undead, and a gauntlet of liches they battled.  Eventually they reached the object of their lifelong quest - the Bone Throne. 

"I claim this throne of evil," shouted Bane the tyrant. "I'll destroy you before you can raise a finger," threatened Bhaal the assassin. "And I shall imprison your essence for eternity," promised Myrkul the necromancer.

Jergal arose from his throne with a weary expression and said, "The Throne is yours.  I have grown weary of this empty power.  Take it if you wish - I promise to serve and guide you as your seneschal until you grow comfortable with the position."  Before the stunned trio could react, the Lord of the Dead continued, "who among you shall rule?"

The trio immediately fell to fighting amongst themselves while Jergal looked on with indifference.  When eventually it appeared that either they would all die of exhaustion or battle on for an eternity, the Lord of the End of Everything intervened.  "after all you have sacrificed, would you come away with nothing?  Why don't you divide the portfolios of the office and engage in a game of skill for them?" asked Jergal. 

Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul considered the god's offer and agreed.  Jergal took the heads of his three most powerful liches and gave them to the trio that they would compete by bowling the skulls.  Each mortal rolled a skull across the Gray Waste, having agreed that the winner would be he who bowled the farthest. 

Malar the Beastlord arrived to visit Jergal at this moment.  After quickly ascertaining that the winner of the contest would get all of Jergal's power, he chased off after the three skulls to make sure that the contest would be halted until he had a chance to participate for part of the prize.  Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul again fell to fighting as it was obvious their sport was ruined, and again Jergal intervened.  "Why don't you allow Lady Luck to decide so you don't have to share with the Beast?"

The trio agreed, and Jergal broke off his skeletal finger bones and gave them to the players.  When Malar returned form chasing the skulls, he found that the trio had just finished a game of knucklebones.

Bane cried out triumphantly, "As winner, I choose to rule for all eternity as the ultimate tyrant.  I can induce hatred and strife at my whim, and all will bow down before me while in my kingdom."

Myrkul, who had won second place, declared, "But I choose the dead, and by doing so I truly win, because all you are lord over, Bane, will eventually be mine.  All things must die - even gods."

Bhaal, who finished third, demurred, "I choose death, and it is by my hand that all that you rule Lord Bane will eventually pass to Lord Myrkul.  Both of you must pay honor to me and obey my wishes, since I can destroy your kingdom Bane, by murdering your subjects, and I can starve your kingdom, Myrkul by staying my hand."

Malar growled in frustration, but could do nothing, and yet again only the beasts were left for him. 

And Jergal merely smiled, for he had been delivered. 

[Feanor]

What was the Karsus crisis (if the story is not too long to tell and someone doesn't mind telling it)

Karsus was one of the most powerful wizards from Netheril's history. He lived something between 7-th century to 4-th century before dale reckoning. He created the most powerful spell ever created : Karsus's Avatar, designed to still the powers of a deity. He chose Mystryl, the goddess of magic, for that. But, when he did it, Mystryl lost the powers to support the weave of magic which surrounded Toril and, for some moments, all magic in Toril ceased to exist. This led to disaster : all the floating cities of Netheril, which were helped to fly by magic, fell to the ground and were destroyed (except for 3 of them). Karsus died and Mystryl sacrificed herself to save the weave. She granted her powers to Mystra, a peasant girl who has a very powerful affinity to magic, and Mystra removed all spells above level 9 from spellcasting.

[Feanor]

When the Netheril fell because magic dissappeared for a short amount of time was that because Mystrl recreated the weave?

No, because Karsus stole his ability to maintain the weave.

[Feanor]

What happens with an imprisoned creature ? The description says it would entombed in a small sphere beneath the earth, but it should not die in a short time ? Or the sphere keeps the imprisoned creature alive ?

[Archmage Silver]

Yes, the spell keeps the creature Imprisoned alive. So, if a goblin was Imprisoned 300 years ago and released by a mage now, it would be very much alive and confused (side note: goblins are always confused when there is something more than eating and killing concerned).

[Lady LeFay]

And they also have a nasty tendency of making the romantic intrigue dump their SO.

Though the main intrigue is why the heck you find them attractive in the first place.

Edited by Lady LeFay, 19 September 2004 - 06:59 AM.

[Archmage Silver]

Though the main intrigue is why the heck you find them attractive in the first place.

What, goblins? Ah, I think that I'm getting blind if I read this right...

[Eclipse]

See, now this is why i wanted info about the shadow weave, Mysta has no control over it. So even though shadow weavers are basically normal arcane users in the rules, in fiction shouldn't they be more powerful.

[Archmage Silver]

No. They are always lower than us, who serve the Lady Mystery. LOL !
Sorry, my Archmage side made a comment again.

[Eclipse]

Pfeh, Shadow magic is just so much more mysterious just because it's not mainstream.

But really... Is the Weave just a powersource that spells tap into for their power. And so the same spell could tap into the Shadow Weave also? Or is the Shadow weave a whole other weave, with it's own rules?

Edited by Eclipse, 19 September 2004 - 08:49 AM.

[Arachnos]

You have to remember tho, that altho there is no theoretical cap on the shadow weave if you want to cast a 10th, 11th or 12th level spell you have to research it yourself. And this is the problem, Mystra and Azuth still control all spell research on Toril, and if they dont want you to have these high levels spells then the actual creation of the spell will fail (regardless of the fact that you have a power source for it)

[NiGHTMARE]

Mystra is perfectly entitled to block the weave from someone, if she has good reason to do it and that person's actions directly concern her, her followers and/or her portfolio. In Prince of Lies, she even blocked a fellow god, Cyric, from accessing the weave (his followers still gained their divine spells, but he personally couldn't even cast a simple cantrip).

BTW the shadow weave is related to the normal weave in that it fills the gaps which exist in between the strands of the weave. So where the weave is strong, the shadow weave is weak, and where the weave is weak, the shadow weave is strongest. I could be wrong, but I believe shadow magic even works in dead magic zones.

[Arachnos]

Yes the shadow weave does work in a dead magic zone. I believe it also works effectively in a wild magic zone. (it did in the first book of the Return of the Archwizards trilogy, 'The Summoning').