42 replies to this topic

[Leomar]

Leonardo has tested much with the mods and the components, so you can install them in the BiG World Project megamod together. For the first reason it was important to see which mods and components one can include in the BWP installation order. We made the BWP not only for us and use the mods and components we like. The BWP should fits for the most BG players. Therefore we need your help and your recommendations of the mods and components we included in the BWP.

Tell us, which mods should be included or removed from the BWP and why. Which components we install you never used or which we don?t use you recommend for installation. With your feedback, we can discuss your opinions and see what we should change for the BWP.



Here some opinions we got in the english BWP thread, to start with:

DeusEx:
I think Shar-Teel and Drizzt npc mods should be removed from BWP because tdd adds Shar-Teel and rot adds Drizzt so there's no point to have them.

Azazello:
I imagine Shar-Teel NPC Mod adds dialogue, quest(s), maybe some snookying, which TDD does not. So that a point right there.

DeusEx:
She has no quests and only few dialogs, i think she is found on first level of irencus dungeon witch is with all the other mods that add npcs already full and she is just a fighter and there are to many of them in the game already so no I don't think there is point in installing her. Maybe later if the mod author adds some quests, bunch of dialogs and a custom kit perhaps.

Leomar:
It depends on the material, the mod is bringing to the game. We will look into it, but know, that mostly NPC mods have more content as the NPCs in the Quest Mods. Shar-Teel we must look for the content, but the Drizzt NPC-Mod has lots of content. But you're right with Drizzt. RoT includes him, too.

Azazello:
pro5 Tweakpack!

I have it installed after Ding0 Experience Fixer (DefJam) and before Worldmap.

I have installed
- Drop Items on Frozen Death
- Drop Items on Disintegrate
- Restore original SoA background music to the starting Promenade cutscene
- Increased spear range & damage

As noted in the thread, the only problem I ever found was due to invalid files from other mods that p5Tweaks could not correct/alter.

A bit of history about Drop Items on Frozen Death:
Oversight Mod has a component to make Comet spell include cold damage. Trouble is, victims who get iced also get their equipment destroyed. pro5 created a method to avoid this in his component.

I haven't tested the component enough to confirm it actually works well-enough, but it hasn't cause any noticeable problems. I trust pro5's coding skills enough to make it a mandatory part of my install.

Here some opinions we got in the german BWP thread, to start with:

- I don?t like the mod Timestop: Why should I remove this spell?
- I don?t like the munchmod, because the person shows up everytime in each area and wants to sell something
- LuvNalia is bugged and does CTDs

I don?t use the following components
- remove helm animation
- no drow avatars (then I don?t take Valen into the underdark)
- Refinements component which changes the armor with min/max. attributes

Greetings Leomar

Edited by Leomar, 12 June 2008 - 10:50 PM.

[DeusEx]

Before I start I just wish to say that I use only fixpack batch file (saves time) and not the install batch because it installs everything. I do every install by hand. I will tell you what comp. you can use that have [not install] next to them in the guide and what I avoid because I either don't like it or there are problems with it. Before you install anything read the guide and check the readme from the mods than make a wishlist what you want to use because if you install every mod in the guide you WILL have serious issues (advice for newcomers). Now here we go (Is it ok if I just complain about certain mods).

Herbs and Potions Add-in for Baldur's Gate 1- installed it once and never again, found it to boring (there are enough potions I can use)
Lost Items Version Revised 2- you can use the portraits if you want (matter of taste)
Mulgore & Xavia NPC v5.0 for BGT and TuTu- I hate barbarians and I have Imoen so I don't need an assasin, they work fine with megamod (tested myself)
Jonathan_NPC_BGT v0.1- never use it, I make Khalid a fighter/mage or there is Indira, don't need a thief (I have my Imoen)
Xan's friendship path for BG1 v4- NEVER AGAIN, Xan is a pain as it is and this is to much, after a while i decided to put him out of his misery (oh and I hate sorcerers, matter of taste)
Coran's BG Extended Friendship Talks for Tutu and BGT v2- thought about it but then realised I will never have Coran in my group so there is no point in having this
Adventures_in_Papperland-WeiDU v3- never use it, don't like the Beatles (should be removed from BWP)
Ghost- never use it, I have enough abilities as it is (useless mod in my eyes, should be removed from BWP)
Munchmod v2.6- Hate it, it adds that wondering idiot that pop-ups everywhere and you can't just walk by him because he starts up conversation as soon as you are in range and telling him to get lost (to be polite) is to much of a pain. Also the mod adds it's own artifacts that you can forge at Cromwell's but there is a problem in a way that you can no longer forge the artifacts from original BG2 (AVOID IT)
Improved Battles Mod v5.1- Improved Dungeon- you can install it, the Improved Ilych from Tactics gets skipped anyway if you have BP installed (not compatible with BGT either)
The Bigg Quest Pack v2.02- I always skip Mprolla, to annoying
The Black Rose Part I: Market Prices- had it once, thought it's boring and moved on
CliffHistory- never use it because of multistronghold
Sylmar Battlefield v1.025- I have a problem with this, when I tell the guy in GD I'm ready to teleport the game starts loading (1/4) and then CDT, so I avoid it until full mode comes out
Deeper Shadows of Amn v2.2.1 (DSoA)- Improved Kangaxx- I would like to have an explanation for this because both DSoA & BP have Gnome Fighter/Illusionist Encounter as well and they can be installed together
Bag Bonus v1.0.1- never use it, i don't use potion cases and ammo belts (thanks to infinite potion & ammo stacking)
Heart Of The Wood _WeiDU v5- never use it (it's just one item)
Herbs and Potions Add-in for Baldur's Gate 2- to boring (there are enough potions I can use, same as bg1)
KWolf_NPC_WeiDU- never use it (I love fallout but this is bg, should be removed from BWP)
RItemPackV2 = RPG Dungeon Item Pack- never use it, i like and need the items it replaces and I don't want weaker items
SP Items- Daniel Goodrich's Custom Item Collection- this first comp. causes issues in a way that items it replaces have a little wrong and messed up descriptions
A Mod for the Orderly ? CliffKey v2- don't need it, I have a bag of holding you know (it's bottomless, should be removed from BWP)
BloodOfTheMartyr_WeiDU v5- never use it, don't need it
Food and Herbal Mod v 1.01 (Foodmod)- I don't think I will ever install this
Lord of the Rings Item Pack v1.02- no way in hell, I don't want to replace items I need and want
Edwin Romance- I don't like Edwin so I never use this
Beyond the Law v1.35- a little warning, if you refuse Kiyone she will go to GD and stand near the entrance to CB and that can be a problem if you plan to take her in later but decide to solve planar s, 2.6c first because when you go to GD for the key all those enemies will kill her.
Ajantis v1.1- I don't use it, have enough paladins as it is
Octavians Drizzt v2Beta2- Rot adds one and he is more than enough
LuvNaliaWeiDU106- I don't use it, it has problems and I don't like Nalia anyway
Shar-Teel v1.0b- almost no content and TDD adds one
BG2 ONE-DAY NPCS- I never use nor will any of them
IRON MODDERS- I never installed them with a megamod and never will
Unfinished Business for BGII v16- The Kidnapping of Boo by Cliffette- to much trouble
- "Cat and Mouse" (Bodhi hunts you in Spellhold) by Ghreyfain- don't need this
-Gorje Hilldark and the Extended Illithium Quest- to much trouble for little ilithium
-Yoshimo's Original Portrait & Anomen's Original Portrait- never tried this but probably works
Timestop_tweak_v2- now why in the nine hells would I want to remove timestop from the game (should be removed from BWP)
Redemption v113- I never use this, always LR
The MTS Crappack v2- Kensai-Valygar- I hate kensai (with this Valygar can no longer use his custom armor wich is idiotic)
-Universal Carsomyr- this is a paladin weapon,no one else should use it, period.
-Robe of Vecna- you can change it's color, no problem
Refinements v3.11- Revised Armor and Shields- I don't use this, I hate penalties
SCS II- Reduce the power of Inquisitors' Dispel Magic- i like it just the way it is
-Remove the Shield of Balduran from the game- now why would you want to do this
-Remove the invisibility power of the Staff of the Magi- same here
-Move Vhailor's Helm into Throne of Bhaal- and here
-Move the Cloak of Mirroring- another one
-Move the Robe of Vecna into Throne of Bhaal- yea right
-Replace +1 magical weapons with Fine ones- i like +1 weapons!
-Remove unrealistically helpful items from certain areas- no way
-Increase the price asked by Gaylan Baele- you can choose here what you like
-Make Watchers' Keep accessible between SoA and ToB- I clear it during SOA part so I avoid this
-Potions for NPCs- just pick one, don't be afraid
-Improved fiends- same here
-Smarter genies- same
-Smarter celestials- same
-Smarter dragons- again same
-Smarter beholders- just pick something
-Smarter mind flayers- same
-Smarter Mages- same here
-Smarter Priests- same
-Add high-level abilities (HLAs) to ToB & SOA mages & priests- pick something
-Improved d'Arnise Keep ("Tactics Remix")- same
-Improved Bodhi (Tactics Remix)- same
-Increase difficulty of level-dependent monster groupings- be careful what you choose, I recommend 1
BGTTweak_v7- Random activated traps in the pirate cave- you can pick 2
-Arkion reacts to player's reputation- you can choose No
BG2 Tweaks v6- Remove Helmet Animations- you can choose No
-Change Viconia's Skin Color to Dark Blue- you can choose No
-Icewind Dale Casting Graphics (Andyr)- you can choose No, I don't like this one because some spells have weird animations then
-Commoners Use Drab Colors- you can choose No
-Gradual Drow Item Disintegration- you can choose No
-Add Bags of Holding- - you can choose No, you get bags even without this
-Gems and Potions Require Identification- you can choose No, other than being annoying it serves no other purpose
-Multiple Strongholds- you can choose, this is among my favorite tweaks
-Allow Cromwell to Upgrade Watcher's Keep Items- well you can choose No but why?
-Two-Handed Bastard Swords & Two-Handed Katanas & Universal Clubs- you can choose No
-Delay High Level Abilities- you can choose No, I do
-Change Experience Point Cap- well you could choose 2 or 3 I suppose but I recommend 1
-Allow Thieving and Stealth in Heavy Armor & Allow Arcane Spellcasting in Heavy Armor- avoid this at all costs!!!!, you get penalties even if you wear a robe as a mage or thiefing penalties when wearing leather armor as a thief!!!!
-Wear Multiple Protection Items- pick one
-Limit Ability of Storekeepers to Identify Items- you can pick 1 or 2 as well
-Maximum HP for NPCs (the bigg)- just pick something
-Make Bags of Holding Bottomless- yes is better
-Happy Patch (Party NPCs do not fight or complain about reputation)- just pick one
-Adjust Evil joinable NPC reaction rolls- No is an answer too
Ding0's Tweak Pack v20- PnP Celestial Fury- you can say No
UniqueArtifacts_v1.12- I never use this mod, never will, I like my items

[Silinde Ar-Feiniel]

Just a general suggestion. I think that the first step in order to make the BWP better would be to try to remove the mods that cause problems and are merely compatible. It's nice to have the most mods possible but in my opinion it would be better to try a stable BWP and not an endless beta. So some mods are better to be left out until their versions become fully compatible. I'm afraid i'm not the one to judge such issues but you guys seem experienced enough...
Apart from that, i generally agree with most of the suggestions of DeusEx. I think in order to have a greater battle, you need a better opponent and not to scale down your items/skills. I don't like removals at all. If someone finds skills/items/spells too overpowering, he can just not use them Scaling down yous power make the game less interesting to me... Just for fun imagine yourself to be so pathetic that you can't kill a goblin... I don't think that makes the battle challenging... Now what if you were a real son of Baal and the goblin was a strong mage with powerfull items (which you'll loot afterwards )... Sounds much better to me... Hope you get my point...

Btw,Sylmar Battlefield v1.025 is from the mod Silmarillion which is going to be a stand-alone mod about the first ages of middle earth. It will really be a great mod (and thanks Zyraen for that) but why should it be in BWP?

[Hoppy]

It says right in the BWP project instructions to leave out as you wish but don't change the order. Every player has different preferences or they may try some mods just to try and judge for themselves. Removed mods should be ones that cause major catastrophes like we saw after the first guide with some of the Iron modders mods.

Edited by Hoppy, 13 June 2008 - 05:36 AM.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Well, hmm, erh, as the guide has some of the BWL mods that aren't really made for compatibility with the other BWP mods, somebody should hijack the info gathered here and make their own #### World Project. (so it starts possibly with Baldurdash1.66, BGTv1.01, IA, TS, NeJ etc. ,notice the order is far of from perfect)

And then change the [No]'s of the Kit mods to something else, so the manual installers don't take it so, hmm restrictive.

[DeusEx]

I just wish to add if you have questions about certain mod or component ask. There are a lot of people here who have tried out most of the stuff listed in BWP and more at one point or another. Also if you want TDD kits install them with TDD, if you want ROT kits install them with ROT (this works for most people i think), all others ask before installing them just to be sure. Portraits won't cause problems (they never have for me). A lot of mods and components are a matter of taste as well.

[Leomar]

Wow, I'm positive surprised of your feedback. Thanks for it. That's why we started this thread. Everybody has his own opinion, but you can see, if you start to discuss, which same opinions the most have.

Yes, you're right if you say, we should sort out some mods from the BWP, to make it more stable. For that we need your help. We know much of the mods, but you, too. We have started to look, which mods are interesting for the gamers and which not. Which mod has much content or are needed and which not. It is not easy to sort it out.

The Iron Modders was a test to see, if you could install them with our megamod if you want. We have seen the upcoming errors in the megamod and decided to remove it from our next BWP. The same will happens with some NPCs. We know, if you want to install NPCs you want mostly a NPC from SoA through ToB with most content and like it to have this NPC in your group. Therefore we decided to remove NPCs with small or none interesting content in the future releases. The same we want to do with the funny Timestop mod.

Really hard for us is, to find good components of the Tweak mods, that fits for the most gamers. Therefore it is nice, to see, what you recommend. Very helpfull is, like DeusEx does, to know, if a component we correctly install, but makes problems in the game. As example I don't know the Valygar issue before, DeusEx mentioned.

As I said, we want to hear your opinions and we hope that you give us some more. We want not to do the BWP for us alone. It should be a guide, that everyone can use and trust.

Greetings Leomar

Edited by Leomar, 13 June 2008 - 04:18 PM.

[Kaeloree]

To answer an earlier question by Silinde Ar-Feiniel:

Sylmar Battlefield is for BGII. It's a small combat-oriented quest, pretty much.

[Hoppy]

NPC mods that add or new ones or change existing ones should be kept becuase some players will like them ans some will not. Installing everything is too much sometimes.

Munchmod should stay as I like it.

I will add the Ajantis mod next time for BG2

Xan is a must for me both the BG1 and BG2

I really like Beyond the Law and if you solve parts of their quests, you can kick out and save them for the rest of their quest later and they wait in the Wndspear Hills. Keeps some extra room for the CC.


I tried the kidnapping of BOO with BGTNEJ minmod with BOO as familiar and needed to change one dialog action for the correct Boo item. Works very well.

Mods that add NPC's in Irenicus dungeon is not too much of a problem as you can kick Imoen out and she will leave (just tried that myelf)

I am not sure I like ADpack and SPitems changing items and then they don't makes sense or do not work so I rely on backups from the original BG2fixpack.

I would love to see Hlidskialf's Clear Fog of War mod to be able to encompass all areas or at least most of them or at least all of BGT. I use it now and it adds its effect to a lot of the BG1 areas.

[Himself]

By the way happy birthday Leomar!!

[Azazello]

Mods that add NPC's in Irenicus dungeon is not too much of a problem as you can kick Imoen out and she will leave (just tried that myelf)

This situation is also easily fixable by either assigning the NPC to a different location outside of Irenicus' playhouse, or putting in a dialogue option for them to wait somewhere else -- or one step more, making this an install component option. All with the mod-author's permission, of course.

For example, once Gilgamesh is spotted again, some of us will request that Drizzt and Wulfgar get moved to Waukeen's Promenade or elsewhere. There's no plotwise reason why they need to be in the dungeon.

Edited by Azazello, 10 July 2008 - 05:33 PM.

[Marvin]

I think all NPCs as well as optional quests should stay, no matter if they are bad. Because even if I don't want these NPCs, it is just cool, to have the option to do so anyway.

Marvin

[Silinde Ar-Feiniel]

Marvin is right. NPC and quest mods should stay (as long as they do not cause compatibility issues). Our concern should be in mods that cause multiple compatibility problems (i think they are the mods that affect AI, rules and tweaks).
A request: could you include in the automatic install some component removals such as DeusEx refered? (i've placed them here once again and i support the opinion that these components sould be avoided )
SCS II- Reduce the power of Inquisitors' Dispel Magic- i like it just the way it is
-Remove the Shield of Balduran from the game- now why would you want to do this
-Remove the invisibility power of the Staff of the Magi- same here
-Move Vhailor's Helm into Throne of Bhaal- and here
-Move the Cloak of Mirroring- another one
-Move the Robe of Vecna into Throne of Bhaal- yea right
-Replace +1 magical weapons with Fine ones- i like +1 weapons!
-Remove unrealistically helpful items from certain areas- no way

Also DeusEx comments about BG2 tweaks seem right to me too. And i wanna add that time stop is my favorite spell and i'd never like to change it at all! Maybe anyone has a different opinion about some mods but also there are many people who share the same principles about BWP. What about using a compatibility/usage rate system about BWPmods? It would be easier to judje about the components you of the BWP team though. I trust you and i'm sure you'll do the best!

[SirLancelot]

Heh. I will answer to this topic ASAP. Very interesting topic.

Silinde Ar-Feiniel, are you the "cheater the better" type or it is just my imagination? Because most of the things you ask to keep and therefore avoid their removal through mods are highly overpowered elements, in my humble opinion That's why there are several mods (not only one) that try to balance those specific objetcs, spells and what not in various (different) ways.

It's a matter of taste, i guess.

[Himself]

Currently, theres no way to stop overpowering in a mega mod, not that I know

Its a problem but I think that we should worry about that later, first we need less bugs, less CTDs, fixed tables, reliable .IDS.. etc etc


Was reading that thing in the other topic about a saved character producing problems if moved from BG1 to BG2, in my simplicity I thought it wouldn't, until somebody mentioned the HLAs..

When a character can already start BG2 using HLAs (meant for epic levels) things like the balduran shield, staff of magi or cloak of mirroring become mere details

Edited by Himself, 15 June 2008 - 05:35 AM.

[DeusEx]

Heh. I will answer to this topic ASAP. Very interesting topic.

Silinde Ar-Feiniel, are you the "cheater the better" type or it is just my imagination? Because most of the things you ask to keep and therefore avoid their removal through mods are highly overpowered elements, in my humble opinion That's why there are several mods (not only one) that try to balance those specific objetcs, spells and what not in various (different) ways.

It's a matter of taste, i guess.

I also skip most of that stuff, but I don't see what exactly is overpowered, I mean i have installed full hitpoints for all creatures in the game, improved every battle i can, increased difficulty for level depended monsters, gave them additional 25% to hitpoints and 1/1/1 to saves and other stuff like smart dragons,spiders and so on. I think this balances things out pretty much.

[Silinde Ar-Feiniel]

Heh. I will answer to this topic ASAP. Very interesting topic.

Silinde Ar-Feiniel, are you the "cheater the better" type or it is just my imagination? Because most of the things you ask to keep and therefore avoid their removal through mods are highly overpowered elements, in my humble opinion That's why there are several mods (not only one) that try to balance those specific objetcs, spells and what not in various (different) ways.

It's a matter of taste, i guess.

Haha,...In fact i love in game tricks but i never use cheats... I'm just the type of player that do the most of the quests possible and playing the game to it's last drop of experience. But because of that, often i reach quickly a higher level than i sould be and when i reach the experience cap my only chance to improve my character would be a unique item. I don't want to be overpowered, i just believe it's better to make your opponents better (by AI, tweaks and rules) than scaling down your powers. Or in alternative to get less experience in order to reach the higher level just before the end, and not in the middle of the game. I think that such things are in progress if not completely done by BWP team (with mods or fixes) so why to leave out some good gear? As Himself reports: When a character can already start BG2 using HLAs (meant for epic levels) things like the balduran shield, staff of magi or cloak of mirroring become mere details. If overpowering isn't solved by that, then i suppose i support your opinion. Mostly i want to keep untouched the original BG/BG2 items/contents. What do you think about that?

[Hoppy]

Yeah but when you use the tracking ability in Check the Bodies chores, you have to see the secret cutscene. Or you can use the other HLA powers to get chores done in 10 minutes.

[Himself]

Sorry I didn't meant HLAs in this sense (CtB is fine), but rather in the sense that a character gathers so much XP in the BG1 part of the game, that he already starts BG2 being of a MUCH higher level than he should.

Assuming that your character starts BG2 exactly how it ended BG1 part of the game (which I don't know for certain, anyway)

[Miloch]

Comments on Linkliste
http://www.kerzenbur...ead.php?t=34931
- The aptly-misnamed "Fastshare" is extremely annoying - isn't there somewhere else to host content that has no ads or delays?
- Gavin is (currently) an NPC mod for the BG1 portion of the game - it is listed in the BG2 section.
- I'm inclined to agree that, like the Iron Modder entries, the One Day NPCs should be included only on an exceptional basis (in other words, if they're really good or went beyond the "one day" development).
- I am not familiar with the "Facing the Shade Lord" content entries, but they seem to be similar to Iron Modder. Can anyone vouch for them?
- The 1PP components should be part of the standard install rather than in Marvin's Additions.
- Isn't Black Rose Pt. 1: Market Prices offline for a reason? Seems incomplete and maybe the author wanted it offline.
- I know installation of a lot of mods comes down to personal choice, but I think mods that hinge on real world material (Matt Damon NPC, Papperland, Jerry Zinger Show) should be excluded. Most of these are "joke mods" by their own descriptions anyway.
- You might offer LadeJarl's TutuGUI (also for BG2 and BGT) as an alternative to W_GUI (a matter of preference).

Comments on Improvements
http://www.shsforums...showtopic=33998
- 01.03. BG2 Fixpack v6: "use before the installation the hotfix of Nythrun" This really makes it v6.1 I guess (wasn't clear to me which was more recent until I looked at the hotfix code).
- 06.01. Dark Side of the Sword Coast (DSotSC4BGTv200) v2.00: "erebusant has created the Zeela Fix, which you must download and unpack" The v2.00 includes this fix. I checked the code, but you can double check with erebusant.
- 06.02. Northern Tales of the Sword Coast (NTotSC4BGTv160) v1.60: "execute the
Setup-NTotSCv161.exe and install the patch." This should probably be added to your install batch file if you're using it (right after Setup-NTotSC.exe).
- 20.02. The Big Picture (BP) v1.77a: "Have you BP with SoS, RoT and/or CtB installed your Yeti's look like Driders." I'm surprised that's the only problem you've noticed. If you've installed all the massive megamods (BP, NEJ2, CtB, RoT, TDD, TS etc.) you'll have loads more animation conflicts than just that. See here: http://www.farseek.c...ms/bg2anims.htm - what we need is a patch that resolves all these conflicts (a lot of work but possible). Cuv started such a project but didn't finish it: http://www.shsforums...showtopic=30589

General comment: You might want to close the 36-page megathread and keep this one open instead for comments (with crosslinks to both). It's getting just a bit long .