34 replies to this topic

[seanas]

Is it just me or do more people think that many of the items added by dsotsc and nsotsc are ridiculously overpowered for bg1?

no, it's not just you; yes, they are ridiculously overpowered.

that said, none of us here had anything to do with actually making DSotSC - it was originally made by the TeamBG crew way back in the day. the only thing anyone here (ie, SirBillyBob) has had to do with this mod is converting it to weidu - it hasn't been edited/ fixed/ rebalanced in any way, shape or form. and the reason for this is cos none of us are the authors, so we don't actually have the permission to edit or rebalance it.

so yes, it's hideously unbalanced. the thing is, there's a really simple solution: just dont equip those weapons.

[Chevalier]

I don't think we should change the mod. I think it would be alright for someone to make a mod to be installed after DSotSC that mods DSotSC. That way the author orginal would not be changed, but players can add other mods to it.

[Miloch]

so yes, it's hideously unbalanced. the thing is, there's a really simple solution: just dont equip those weapons.

I tend to tone these items down myself with dltcep as I go, but it would be nice to have the option to install toned down versions of these items during installation. Couldn't you add an option during installation to install rebalanced versions of these items, which says something like "Rebalanced items. These items are not part of the original Dsotsc, yada yada yada..."?

Yes. I'm handling this in another mod I'm updating (for which I'm not the author but have the author's permission) the very way you suggest. The mod adds a bunch of potentially unbalancing items to the game (including, ironically, a number of the DSotSC items), so I give the player the option:

Install items:
1. Original items
2. Nerfed items

That way if the author or anyone else objects to the original content being messed with, it's still there. But it also makes the mod more enjoyable to those who want to play with some balance and without ignoring everything added by the mod.

It shouldn't be too much hassle to rebalance them, I could do it myself if there were any interest for it...

That would be great. Or at least post the values of what you think is reasonable for the items. Ultimately I'd like to see a combined DSotSC that is triple platform compatible (BG1, BGT, Tutu) and contains all the TeamBG, Chosen of Mystra and SHS changes, as well as make it more balanced (Ascension64 and I have been talking about this). That may be a lot of work, but nerfing the items will go a long way toward accomplishing it.

[Miloch]

Good stuff, Draco. Those changes are certainly more reasonable. Keeping in mind this mod takes place in the BG1 section (or between BG1 and BG2) I'd even nerf some of them further, like reducing all the Dex bonuses to +1 (also considering there are multiple items with this bonus and you could probably stack them). Also anything +4 is pretty high considering the best TotSC items are +3 and even those are pretty rare. There are some other items that could be nerfed too, like the staff Nemmerle's Revenge and the Strength Long Bow +3, Vibradeath. But this is definitely a good start. I'll check some of the items in more detail once I'm done nerfing the items in the mods I'm working on now.

[Miloch]

If I understood it correctly Mortus should be a big boss, so removing the overgodly dsrobe03 might make him too easy.

Possibly. But that could be handled better by beefing up his stats. Or you could keep the robe on him and just flag it undroppable so the PC can't get it (and maybe have a nerfed version in his inventory also).

[King Diamond]

All that could be included in DSotSC as an optional component...

[Red Carnelian]

Most of the items in the list above were toned down for the BG1 version at COM. I cross checked all the items added and almost a third of the items that were added originally were not used. These were removed. You'll find it a lot easier to take a look at the items for that MOD before you embark on work for this version which still seems to have balance issues. I created a database of item and spell changes due to the volume of editing needed. There are 555 Dark Side items listed in the database. You can have a look at that if it makes life any easier. Just let me know if you need it.

[Miloch]

Most of the items in the list above were toned down for the BG1 version at COM. I cross checked all the items added and almost a third of the items that were added originally were not used. These were removed. You'll find it a lot easier to take a look at the items for that MOD before you embark on work for this version which still seems to have balance issues. I created a database of item and spell changes due to the volume of editing needed. There are 555 Dark Side items listed in the database. You can have a look at that if it makes life any easier. Just let me know if you need it.

That database would be very useful - sent you a post about this over at CoM (as Tervadh). Ultimately, I would've liked to have seen a cross-compatible BGT/Tutu/BG1 DSotSC, but it seems perhaps the development has gone too far in two different directions at this point. Though having said that, some preliminary analysis a while back indicated the BGT version might've been a better base for a Tutu conversion than the BG1 version (or an easier base anyway) as it patches a little more cleanly (whereas the BG1 version might overwrite). I suppose any item tweaks done to a BG1/Tutu version could be backported to a separate BGT mod or optional subcomponent.

[kimmel]

So.... Did anything ever happen with this? I thought nerfing items was a great idea! If there's something fairly simple to be done I'd be willing to do it, but I know verrrry little about Weidu or other programming (suddenly not even quite sure that's how the word is spelled!).

[SirLancelot]

This mod musn't die here. It has to be released. Why its development has been sttoped? I think is utterly neccessary... a must have tweak, IMO. Dsotsc and Nsotsc are not the only BG1 modules any more.

[kimmel]

Well, I didn't mean to imply that the mod is dead; in fact, I think Sir BB is working on an update right now. But he's concentrating on fixes not tweaks (I think) and I presume that means that item nerfing is not a priority. But I could be wrong!

[leahnkain]

This mod musn't die here. It has to be released. Why its development has been sttoped? I think is utterly neccessary... a must have tweak, IMO. Dsotsc and Nsotsc are not the only BG1 modules any more.

Sir BillyBob is always making new patches, please be patient.
Sir BillyBob, myself and Celestine have been busy making a TC. You should check it out. You can once again begin at 1st level. Classic Adventures

Edited by leahnkain, 01 August 2007 - 05:43 PM.

[SirLancelot]

Sir BillyBob, myself and Celestine have been busy making a TC. You should check it out. You can once again begin at 1st level. Classic Adventures

I'm aware of your work and admire your efforts. But i can't see the link between DSOTSC unbalance issues and Classic Adventures. I find both mods unrelated, but i guess i'm wrong.