Introduction from the Readme
This Mod aims to weaken the items in BG2 : SoA & ToB to provide a greater challenge in gameplay.
Note that this Mod does not reduce the quality of items, such as their enchantment level, but mainly focuses on their abilities as a candidate for reduction. The Mod is divided into 3 segments, as follows.
- Primary Nerfs - Reducing Overpowered Items
- Secondary Reductions - Instant Kill Reductions
- Periphery Tweaks - Less Noteable Items
Items which have been amended in each category include
- Staff of Magi, Robe of Vecna, Carsomyr, Celestial Fury in the Primary Nerfs
- Silver Sword, Axe of Unyielding, Mace of Disruption in the Secondary Reductions
- Daystar, Flail of Ages, Firetooth in Periphery Tweaks
Readme - http://www.geocities.../readmenerf.txt
Download - http://www.geocities...ul/nerfitem.zip
RELEASED - Item Nerfs & Balancing
Started by Zyraen, Jul 19 2005 01:23 AM
6 replies to this topic
#1
Zyraen
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- Modder
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Posted 19 July 2005 - 01:23 AM
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Spellhold Gauntlet - more than just a Spellhold-Be-Gone
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#2
-MoonElf-
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Posted 20 July 2005 - 11:11 AM
First i'll say that I very much like the idea of nerfing some items since there are a few which are clearly too strong, and like xp nerfing mods its preferable to making lots of enemies with immunities.
Ok.. heres what i think of your item nerfs individually
,
Primary Nerfs
- Cloak of mirroring: yes, a much need nerf, cloak was clearly too strong, i'd even be tempted to make it 25%.
- Robe of Vecna: ok i'll admit when i first saw this on the list i was thinking disgruntled melee fighter wanted to nerf mage items, however i think -4 to -2 is a reasonable nerf in the context of the rest of the nerfs... but please.. no further mages have enough trouble keeping up with a fighters kill rate and IMO -2 is just right... not too strong and not too weak. Combining with a total of -3 with the amulet of power as opposed to -5 before really seems like it will still be usefull without being too overwhelming.
-Staff of the Magi: yep, invis on equip was much too good and the 3/invis a day seems like a good replacement. The dispell on hit was also too good.. but i think you should make the new value equal to carsomyr and also try and keep percentages that appear often in BG2 such as 25% and 50% so the mod won't stand out too much when playing. This also goes for some of the other items in your nerf list. I'd make carsomyr and staff 25% dispell considering how fast you can attack (10 times a round with GWW, and like 5/6 without). With no save i don't think the percentage should be too high.
-Blackrazor: no idea why you are nerfing this item... as a +3 item you can only get right at the end of SoA its use is limited anyway considering most good opponents in ToB need +4 weapons to be hit. Also it is one of the few evil orientated weapons in the game among such items as carsomyr. I would definetly NOT nerf this weapon.
-Celestial Fury: agree it needs nerfing but i'd nerf it once not twice, remember it does have quite an easy save... also consider making it 25% as i was saying before so it won't stand out against standard BG2 weapon effects.
-Carsomyr +5/+6: again, i wouldn't nerf it twice... I would take the dispell effects down to 25% though. Also remember that IIRC the magic resistance is of the SET type meaning you can't get higher than 50 if you use carsomyr.
-Crom Faeyr: I think you are nerfing it too hard, remember that it eats some very good items on creation. I would go for 24 str and an added save for its kill effect, although i wouldn't lower the percentage as the creatures it kills are not the cream of ToB anyway.
Secondary Reductions
-Silver Sword: again, a +3 item gained at the end of SoA that can be quickly replaced with much more effective items in ToB, not my ideal candidate for a nerf.
-Mace of Disruption +1/+2: Agree here, maybe even nerf them a little harder... to 15/25 perhaps.
-Runehammer +4/+5: Perfect.
-Wave: I would add a save instead (+0), as with crom faeyr the creatures are not that great anyway and it isn't a weapon thats availible till later on. The reason i am in favour of adding saves is it means that whether or not the creature dies is based more on the power of the creature over luck. Should a master genie be killed as easily as a regular one? because with no save it will be.
-Ravager +6: Another perfect one, this item was painfully good before.
-Axe of Unyielding +3/+5: agree with the vorpal reduction though i would make it didn't have one at +3 before, i hope you didn't add one
. The regen nerf is ridiculous, by the time you get the +5 axe the regen is almost unnoticeable in the heat of combat.
-Azuredge: Nice, I'd go further and make it 10%.
Periphery Tweaks
-Daystar: seems ok.
-Soul Reaver: Very much disagree, this is the closest thing and evil fighter has to carsomyr and it still pales in comparison, no nerf needed.
-Flail of ages +4/+5: looks good.
-Short Sword of the Mask +4/+5: didn't think it needed a nerf personally but seems ok.
-Answerer +4: nerfed too hard, i'd make it 50%, remember where you get it and that its only a +4 weapon.
-Kundane/Belm: not sure what you're doing here, these items were nice but noway overpowered.
-Firetooth +3: the item was overpowered but i don't think you will have fixed it since it was the fire damage that made it good.
-White Dragon Scale: Yep nice one.
Well, there you are, i hope you take the time to consider my suggestions as I spent quite some time on this reply. I think your mod has good potential and i can safely say, heres one person who will use it with a little tweaking.
Ok.. heres what i think of your item nerfs individually
,Primary Nerfs
- Cloak of mirroring: yes, a much need nerf, cloak was clearly too strong, i'd even be tempted to make it 25%.
- Robe of Vecna: ok i'll admit when i first saw this on the list i was thinking disgruntled melee fighter wanted to nerf mage items
, however i think -4 to -2 is a reasonable nerf in the context of the rest of the nerfs... but please.. no further mages have enough trouble keeping up with a fighters kill rate and IMO -2 is just right... not too strong and not too weak. Combining with a total of -3 with the amulet of power as opposed to -5 before really seems like it will still be usefull without being too overwhelming.-Staff of the Magi: yep, invis on equip was much too good and the 3/invis a day seems like a good replacement. The dispell on hit was also too good.. but i think you should make the new value equal to carsomyr and also try and keep percentages that appear often in BG2 such as 25% and 50% so the mod won't stand out too much when playing. This also goes for some of the other items in your nerf list. I'd make carsomyr and staff 25% dispell considering how fast you can attack (10 times a round with GWW, and like 5/6 without). With no save i don't think the percentage should be too high.
-Blackrazor: no idea why you are nerfing this item... as a +3 item you can only get right at the end of SoA its use is limited anyway considering most good opponents in ToB need +4 weapons to be hit. Also it is one of the few evil orientated weapons in the game among such items as carsomyr. I would definetly NOT nerf this weapon.
-Celestial Fury: agree it needs nerfing but i'd nerf it once not twice, remember it does have quite an easy save... also consider making it 25% as i was saying before so it won't stand out against standard BG2 weapon effects.
-Carsomyr +5/+6: again, i wouldn't nerf it twice... I would take the dispell effects down to 25% though. Also remember that IIRC the magic resistance is of the SET type meaning you can't get higher than 50 if you use carsomyr.
-Crom Faeyr: I think you are nerfing it too hard, remember that it eats some very good items on creation. I would go for 24 str and an added save for its kill effect, although i wouldn't lower the percentage as the creatures it kills are not the cream of ToB anyway.
Secondary Reductions
-Silver Sword: again, a +3 item gained at the end of SoA that can be quickly replaced with much more effective items in ToB, not my ideal candidate for a nerf.
-Mace of Disruption +1/+2: Agree here, maybe even nerf them a little harder... to 15/25 perhaps.
-Runehammer +4/+5: Perfect.
-Wave: I would add a save instead (+0), as with crom faeyr the creatures are not that great anyway and it isn't a weapon thats availible till later on. The reason i am in favour of adding saves is it means that whether or not the creature dies is based more on the power of the creature over luck. Should a master genie be killed as easily as a regular one? because with no save it will be.
-Ravager +6: Another perfect one, this item was painfully good before.
-Axe of Unyielding +3/+5: agree with the vorpal reduction though i would make it didn't have one at +3 before, i hope you didn't add one
. The regen nerf is ridiculous, by the time you get the +5 axe the regen is almost unnoticeable in the heat of combat.-Azuredge: Nice, I'd go further and make it 10%.
Periphery Tweaks
-Daystar: seems ok.
-Soul Reaver: Very much disagree, this is the closest thing and evil fighter has to carsomyr and it still pales in comparison, no nerf needed.
-Flail of ages +4/+5: looks good.
-Short Sword of the Mask +4/+5: didn't think it needed a nerf personally but seems ok.
-Answerer +4: nerfed too hard, i'd make it 50%, remember where you get it and that its only a +4 weapon.
-Kundane/Belm: not sure what you're doing here, these items were nice but noway overpowered.
-Firetooth +3: the item was overpowered but i don't think you will have fixed it since it was the fire damage that made it good.
-White Dragon Scale: Yep nice one.
Well, there you are, i hope you take the time to consider my suggestions as I spent quite some time on this reply. I think your mod has good potential and i can safely say, heres one person who will use it with a little tweaking
.
#3
-MoonElf-
-MoonElf-
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- Guest
Posted 20 July 2005 - 11:15 AM
Couple of things i forgot to say, first maybe fix the spell trap on the staff so it dispellable, and second also consider the shield of balduran and the shield of refelction for nerfs.
#4
Zyraen
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- Modder
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- 1402 posts
Posted 21 July 2005 - 11:10 PM
Firstly, I'm not going to change any percentages because they suit the game better ^^;;; that's a really odd reason I've heard, and BG2 has quite a few items with fairly "odd" %tages, especially Flail of Ages with a 33% among others.
Staff of Magi was given a high %tage dispel over Carsomyr because it's much harder for the user of SoM to hit. It's given over half so there's a reasonable chance there
Blackrazor is very very very strong if you use it in ToB ^^;;; believe me it is, I've used it before. And not that many opponents are immune to +3 weapons. Try using it with GWW
Celestial Fury, yeah I was sort of worrying if I over nerfed it with a double. Probably will restore the Stun duration back to 6 seconds. Truth be told I never realised it was 100% effective until I actually looked at the ITM, because people saved so often against it.
Carsomyr does deserve to be nerfed twice, I think.
The only worthy thing Crom Faeyr eats, is the Belt. The rest aren't really very spectacular items, I feel, quite useless in fact. The hammer is practically an ordinary +3 weapon. Most useless I feel is the Ogre Gauntlets.. useable only by fighter I think. You'd think a fighter wouldn't need something like that too much over Gloves of Specialisation.
Silver Sword - agreed. I think the -1 Saving Throw is a bit harsh, maybe set it back to a -2 Save penalty.
Wave - I don't think anyone really uses this weapon much anyway. I just handled it as a matter of handling the instant kill stuff, and yeah with such items it *is* death regardless of the strength, that is the intent of the orig game designer.
Axe of the Unyielding - It is only nerfed with respect to the other items in the game. Originally, the +5 Axe Regened faster than the Ring of Gaxx. You tell me if that is a problem
The +3 was tweaked down only relative to the +5 down-tweak.
Regarding Mace of Disruption, Runehammer, Azuredge etc, your notes seem almost arbitrary, and that really makes me wonder why. If they all were 100% originally, applied to the same group (undead), why are some perfect, some 15/25, and others 10% is better? ^^;; I am confused.
Shield of Balduran was considered but bypassed because it only worked on beholder rays. I'm not sure about the Shield, will look into it, but if I remember correctly yeah it definitely needs nerfing.
I agree about Short Sword of the Mask, I was sort of asking myself.. wait a minute why did I tweak it? Probably it was the no save that bugged me.
Soul Reaver and Answerer, are again, nothing personal, just reducing a 100% effectiveness ^^;; I'm the last to consider it with respect to other items. As for evil characters, I find it irritating that Blackrazor, Rod of Terror can be used by good guys, and why so many good items go to goody2shoes only. That's a game issue though, not for me to handle, unless I write something to clear all the arbitrary alignment shlick that we have to put up with in BG2, especially all the quests that are available for evil are NOWHERE as rewarding as the goodie path. I always take the good way even when I'm evil, because they simply reward better.
Kundane, Belm and Firetooth's extra Attack nerf is to prevent them from being abused, especially the first 2, when placed in the offhand of a non-fighter basic to provide the noticeable extra 1-2 attacks.
I can't remember if I mentioned in the readme, but all the extra damage bonuses are not addressed by the Mod, nor do I intend to, unless done as a patch.
That being said though, I am not going to sue if you modify the items yourself the way you want them, after installing the Mod or something So go ahead, don't worry, whatever makes your day. Alternatively if a certain nerf/tweak disagrees with you, just comment it out so it doesn't install, the readme provides clear instructions on it.
PS : An alternative to an XP-nerfing Mod is Stage Based XP Cap you can check it out at http://www.shsforums...showtopic=16371
Staff of Magi was given a high %tage dispel over Carsomyr because it's much harder for the user of SoM to hit. It's given over half so there's a reasonable chance there
Blackrazor is very very very strong if you use it in ToB ^^;;; believe me it is, I've used it before. And not that many opponents are immune to +3 weapons. Try using it with GWW
Celestial Fury, yeah I was sort of worrying if I over nerfed it with a double. Probably will restore the Stun duration back to 6 seconds. Truth be told I never realised it was 100% effective until I actually looked at the ITM, because people saved so often against it.
Carsomyr does deserve to be nerfed twice, I think.
The only worthy thing Crom Faeyr eats, is the Belt. The rest aren't really very spectacular items, I feel, quite useless in fact. The hammer is practically an ordinary +3 weapon. Most useless I feel is the Ogre Gauntlets.. useable only by fighter I think. You'd think a fighter wouldn't need something like that too much over Gloves of Specialisation.
Silver Sword - agreed. I think the -1 Saving Throw is a bit harsh, maybe set it back to a -2 Save penalty.
Wave - I don't think anyone really uses this weapon much anyway. I just handled it as a matter of handling the instant kill stuff, and yeah with such items it *is* death regardless of the strength, that is the intent of the orig game designer.
Axe of the Unyielding - It is only nerfed with respect to the other items in the game. Originally, the +5 Axe Regened faster than the Ring of Gaxx. You tell me if that is a problem
The +3 was tweaked down only relative to the +5 down-tweak.Regarding Mace of Disruption, Runehammer, Azuredge etc, your notes seem almost arbitrary, and that really makes me wonder why. If they all were 100% originally, applied to the same group (undead), why are some perfect, some 15/25, and others 10% is better? ^^;; I am confused.
Shield of Balduran was considered but bypassed because it only worked on beholder rays. I'm not sure about the Shield, will look into it, but if I remember correctly yeah it definitely needs nerfing.
I agree about Short Sword of the Mask, I was sort of asking myself.. wait a minute why did I tweak it? Probably it was the no save that bugged me.
Soul Reaver and Answerer, are again, nothing personal, just reducing a 100% effectiveness ^^;; I'm the last to consider it with respect to other items. As for evil characters, I find it irritating that Blackrazor, Rod of Terror can be used by good guys, and why so many good items go to goody2shoes only. That's a game issue though, not for me to handle, unless I write something to clear all the arbitrary alignment shlick that we have to put up with in BG2, especially all the quests that are available for evil are NOWHERE as rewarding as the goodie path. I always take the good way even when I'm evil, because they simply reward better.
Kundane, Belm and Firetooth's extra Attack nerf is to prevent them from being abused, especially the first 2, when placed in the offhand of a non-fighter basic to provide the noticeable extra 1-2 attacks.
I can't remember if I mentioned in the readme, but all the extra damage bonuses are not addressed by the Mod, nor do I intend to, unless done as a patch.
That being said though, I am not going to sue if you modify the items yourself the way you want them, after installing the Mod or something
So go ahead, don't worry, whatever makes your day. Alternatively if a certain nerf/tweak disagrees with you, just comment it out so it doesn't install, the readme provides clear instructions on it.PS : An alternative to an XP-nerfing Mod is Stage Based XP Cap
you can check it out at http://www.shsforums...showtopic=16371
________
Love between a Law Enforcer and a Fugitive - can such a thing even happen?
SoA Release - Overview / Download Links
Zyraen's Miscellaneous Mods - Ust Natha Accelerator, item tweaks, XP caps, The Ub3r Reaver Kit, and much more...
Spellhold Gauntlet - more than just a Spellhold-Be-Gone
Hidden Kits - hidden dual-classed kits with a twist for progression
#5
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Posted 22 July 2005 - 05:37 AM
I see you don't often take thieves in your party.Staff of Magi was given a high %tage dispel over Carsomyr because it's much harder for the user of SoM to hit. It's given over half so there's a reasonable chance there
Personally I don't think its too strong.. but then again this wasn't one of my main concerns.Blackrazor is very very very strong if you use it in ToB ^^;;; believe me it is, I've used it before. And not that many opponents are immune to +3 weapons. Try using it with GWW
The gauntlets are pretty useful with a full party on multi class fighters. I still think you should add a save.Carsomyr does deserve to be nerfed twice, I think.
The only worthy thing Crom Faeyr eats, is the Belt. The rest aren't really very spectacular items, I feel, quite useless in fact. The hammer is practically an ordinary +3 weapon. Most useless I feel is the Ogre Gauntlets.. useable only by fighter I think. You'd think a fighter wouldn't need something like that too much over Gloves of Specialisation.
Thats a pretty poor excuse... if you were trying to keep with the intent of the developers then why does the ravager now have a save? and why does the staff of the magi not grant invisibility on equip.. since this was clearly the intent of the developer. And maybe you don't use the weapon much, but it is infact very useful for killing summoned efreeti and fire elementals, and the many littered around the place. Not a primary weapon but a good one to have in quickslots. Don't dismiss weapons just because they aren't on your partiesWave - I don't think anyone really uses this weapon much anyway. I just handled it as a matter of handling the instant kill stuff, and yeah with such items it *is* death regardless of the strength, that is the intent of the orig game designer.
.The problem here is that this tweak doesn't fit the category which was supposed to deal with vorpal effects, and this is a regen effect.Axe of the Unyielding - It is only nerfed with respect to the other items in the game. Originally, the +5 Axe Regened faster than the Ring of Gaxx. You tell me if that is a problem
Slightly worrying that you are confused here, but allow me to elaborate. An item availible right at the start of the game(azuredge) or very early(mace) that kills a specific stype of creature is going to make that type of creature very weak to your party throughout the entire game, even when you are low levels. Now by the time you get to the runehammer there isn't much undead left in the game and more powerful items are dropping anyway, so it isn't as unbalancing to have a higher percentage. I feel this is quite an important point that you have overlooked.Regarding Mace of Disruption, Runehammer, Azuredge etc, your notes seem almost arbitrary, and that really makes me wonder why. If they all were 100% originally, applied to the same group (undead), why are some perfect, some 15/25, and others 10% is better? ^^;; I am confused.
Mace of disruption only works on undead and you nerfed that. The shield basically makes beholders a complete joke. They are completely ineffective against this item right now, it needs a nerf similar to the cloak of mirroring.Shield of Balduran was considered but bypassed because it only worked on beholder rays. I'm not sure about the Shield, will look into it, but if I remember correctly yeah it definitely needs nerfing.
Well not my opinion but they are in the 3rd category which i think is ok. I would recommend moving the flail to the 1st category since it is one of the strongest items in the game.Soul Reaver and Answerer, are again, nothing personal, just reducing a 100% effectiveness ^^;; I'm the last to consider it with respect to other items. As for evil characters, I find it irritating that Blackrazor, Rod of Terror can be used by good guys, and why so many good items go to goody2shoes only. That's a game issue though, not for me to handle, unless I write something to clear all the arbitrary alignment shlick that we have to put up with in BG2, especially all the quests that are available for evil are NOWHERE as rewarding as the goodie path. I always take the good way even when I'm evil, because they simply reward better.
Kundane, Belm and Firetooth's extra Attack nerf is to prevent them from being abused, especially the first 2, when placed in the offhand of a non-fighter basic to provide the noticeable extra 1-2 attacks.
Hm, well i did see that but even at the hardest setting its still a pretty high cap(5.5 mil). What I play with xp nerfings lands me with about 3mil at the end of the game with my main char(wizard) just hitting level 18 and 9th lvl spells before the final battle with melissan and the 5(acsension). Really fun with that kind of low xp as with the tougher battles you really do need to use tactics and lots of charged itemsPS : An alternative to an XP-nerfing Mod is Stage Based XP Cap
. Maybe you should add one mode even harder, like insane or something.P.S. sorry if anything i said comes off as a bit rude, that wasn't my intention
.
#6
Zyraen
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- Modder
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- 1402 posts
Posted 22 July 2005 - 08:40 AM
No it's cool We just don't see eye to eye about some things. And yeah I can see your point now about the SoM, I've never had a thief use it (well I have, but he was a mage/thief), and Fighter / Thief would make a good hitting with that. Still, apart for dispel, I think SoM is pretty useless as a damage dealer.
Yeah my first game was multiclass fighters And yes I did find the gauntlets useful. In retrospect though, with so many Str items, only to a limited degree. My original intent in nerfing Crom was to actually make it so that the creation no longer consumed the Ogre Gauntlets, but later I decided to heck it since I found the Gauntlets pretty useless, in retrospect (I liked it a LOT in the original SoA, prior to ToB)
"intent of the orig game designer" - I agree with you I thought it was a lame excuse, and I wondered if you would point that out. It is good to know you haven't disappointed me on this and many other counts (like on the Beholder and the so-called "arbitrary" undead stuff. I was wondering when someone would nail me on those). Truth is though, like most instant hit weapons, I don't think it's that important. Alternatively I could make it a double nerf to slaying abils of both Crom and Wave.
I agree the flail is powerful - the no save, no resist stuff made it work on Melissan before and that was like.. pretty bizarre (oh but so does Celestial Fury +5, the one in Item Upgrade Pack. Stunned Melissan from Ascension, anyone?) The main reason its not in the 1st category is because I doubt most people agree with us on that note - quite a few wondered why FoA *is* in the Nerf pack even, lol.
The Shield of Balduran was bypassed for the reason I gave you, but reading your reasoning I realise I didn't think on it enough probably due to personal bias towards the Shield, and really inside me I always felt it was too powerful. But yeah I agree, will nerf it in future, maybe to a 50% or 60% reflection (still high, but yeah, I find beholders really cheesy...)
About the 3 undead-killing weapons, I guessed you were going to give that train of logic, and sure enough you did I know it may sound weird, but basically I agree, but I still feel that it's ok since it takes away evenly from them what makes them so wanted (if I'm not mistaken, without a tweak somewhere AE doesn't even Instant-Kill undead...). It's not a very good reason, I know But the upshot of it is that I largely just don't agree with that thinking, probably because my gameplay style (and I think many other people's) revolves around getting my favourite weapons - it doesn't matter how powerful a weapon is - if I don't use it I don't use it, and if I use it I will, that applies irregardless of when I actually gain the item (argument wise, in this case, applicable only to the comparison between AE and MoD), unless it's really a late game item like Items which can only be created/obtained during/after Underdark (even then arguably not late, people are known to "rush" Spellhold)
You must realise though, that not many people play the way you do, Tactics and all I'm not going to attempt to make stuff for folks who play Tactics and enjoy it, I sure as hell don't. I don't even try Ascension after I found out about the Ctrl-Y crap. Since I installed it (never uninstalled it) I either cheat through the ending or just stop my game after killing the Ravager. And that's without any XP Cap lying around, lol. My "lack" of combat expertise in comparison is probably seen from here, heh - http://forums.pocket...ic,19877.0.html
No hard feelings at all, in fact it's been a while since I manage to bump into someone like you, and I like people with the reasoning to back it all up If you use MSN and don't mind chatting there, or have some interest in a place that might need more people like you, feel free to drop me a PM when you do create an account on Spellhold Studios. Alternatively I have accounts in Gibberlings3, PPG and CoM that you can PM me at.
We just don't see eye to eye about some things. And yeah I can see your point now about the SoM, I've never had a thief use it (well I have, but he was a mage/thief), and Fighter / Thief would make a good hitting with that. Still, apart for dispel, I think SoM is pretty useless as a damage dealer.Yeah my first game was multiclass fighters
And yes I did find the gauntlets useful. In retrospect though, with so many Str items, only to a limited degree. My original intent in nerfing Crom was to actually make it so that the creation no longer consumed the Ogre Gauntlets, but later I decided to heck it since I found the Gauntlets pretty useless, in retrospect (I liked it a LOT in the original SoA, prior to ToB)"intent of the orig game designer" - I agree with you
I thought it was a lame excuse, and I wondered if you would point that out. It is good to know you haven't disappointed me on this and many other counts (like on the Beholder and the so-called "arbitrary" undead stuff. I was wondering when someone would nail me on those). Truth is though, like most instant hit weapons, I don't think it's that important. Alternatively I could make it a double nerf to slaying abils of both Crom and Wave.I agree the flail is powerful - the no save, no resist stuff made it work on Melissan before and that was like.. pretty bizarre (oh but so does Celestial Fury +5, the one in Item Upgrade Pack. Stunned Melissan from Ascension, anyone?) The main reason its not in the 1st category is because I doubt most people agree with us on that note - quite a few wondered why FoA *is* in the Nerf pack even, lol.
The Shield of Balduran was bypassed for the reason I gave you, but reading your reasoning I realise I didn't think on it enough
probably due to personal bias towards the Shield, and really inside me I always felt it was too powerful. But yeah I agree, will nerf it in future, maybe to a 50% or 60% reflection (still high, but yeah, I find beholders really cheesy...)About the 3 undead-killing weapons, I guessed you were going to give that train of logic, and sure enough you did
I know it may sound weird, but basically I agree, but I still feel that it's ok since it takes away evenly from them what makes them so wanted (if I'm not mistaken, without a tweak somewhere AE doesn't even Instant-Kill undead...). It's not a very good reason, I know But the upshot of it is that I largely just don't agree with that thinking, probably because my gameplay style (and I think many other people's) revolves around getting my favourite weapons - it doesn't matter how powerful a weapon is - if I don't use it I don't use it, and if I use it I will, that applies irregardless of when I actually gain the item (argument wise, in this case, applicable only to the comparison between AE and MoD), unless it's really a late game item like Items which can only be created/obtained during/after Underdark (even then arguably not late, people are known to "rush" Spellhold)You must realise though, that not many people play the way you do, Tactics and all
I'm not going to attempt to make stuff for folks who play Tactics and enjoy it, I sure as hell don't. I don't even try Ascension after I found out about the Ctrl-Y crap. Since I installed it (never uninstalled it) I either cheat through the ending or just stop my game after killing the Ravager. And that's without any XP Cap lying around, lol. My "lack" of combat expertise in comparison is probably seen from here, heh - http://forums.pocket...ic,19877.0.htmlNo hard feelings at all, in fact it's been a while since I manage to bump into someone like you, and I like people with the reasoning to back it all up
If you use MSN and don't mind chatting there, or have some interest in a place that might need more people like you, feel free to drop me a PM when you do create an account on Spellhold Studios. Alternatively I have accounts in Gibberlings3, PPG and CoM that you can PM me at.
Edited by Zyraen, 22 July 2005 - 08:43 AM.
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Love between a Law Enforcer and a Fugitive - can such a thing even happen?
SoA Release - Overview / Download Links
Zyraen's Miscellaneous Mods - Ust Natha Accelerator, item tweaks, XP caps, The Ub3r Reaver Kit, and much more...
Spellhold Gauntlet - more than just a Spellhold-Be-Gone
Hidden Kits - hidden dual-classed kits with a twist for progression
#7
Zyraen
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- Modder
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- 1402 posts
Posted 11 September 2005 - 06:32 PM
Have consolidated this Mod, along with some of other my Mods, into a little collection of Mods that can be found at the
http://www.pocketplane.net/zyraen
The files for the stand-alone versions will be removed from my site Thanks!
Notes :
Many thanks to MoonElf For the issues raised on this Thread. In the compilation I've implemented many of your points raised here Thanks again!
http://www.pocketplane.net/zyraen
The files for the stand-alone versions will be removed from my site
Thanks!Notes :
Many thanks to MoonElf
For the issues raised on this Thread. In the compilation I've implemented many of your points raised here Thanks again!
________
Love between a Law Enforcer and a Fugitive - can such a thing even happen?
SoA Release - Overview / Download Links
Zyraen's Miscellaneous Mods - Ust Natha Accelerator, item tweaks, XP caps, The Ub3r Reaver Kit, and much more...
Spellhold Gauntlet - more than just a Spellhold-Be-Gone
Hidden Kits - hidden dual-classed kits with a twist for progression
